4 ms·

> Hidden fees are fees in which a seller uses an artificially low headline price to attract a customer and usually either discloses additional required fees in

by krab 3y ago

> Hidden fees are fees in which a seller uses an artificially low headline price to attract a customer and usually either discloses additional required fees in smaller print, or reveals additional unavoidable charges later in the buying process. Like tips?

rahimnathwani 3y ago
I guess tips are technically not 'unavoidable'.
- krab 3y ago
  Yes, I understand. But if you want to come to the same restaurant again and you don't tip, it may be a problem. Imagine Amazon not wanting to do business with you because you didn't add extra X% to your previous purchase.
  - kwhitefoot 3y ago
    That's the restaurant's problem not mine.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
      Clearly you haven't learned the lesson of not fucking with those who make your food.
      - kwhitefoot 3y ago
        if the place is that bad I wouldn't want to go back anyway.
dehrmann 3y ago
At least tips are expected. It's the 5% "employee support fee" that annoys me because it's a hidden fee, and it's not clear how it relates to tips.
- krab 3y ago
  Never heard of that, sounds funny. :-)
  - devilbunny 3y ago
    There's a restaurant I've given up on for one of those fees. It's not on their PDF menus at all, nor the HTML ones. Just a nice little surprise when you go there. Fuck you. Pay your employees out of my bill, or go out of business, but don't tell me I owe 4% more for "kitchen support". Much like restaurants that want to charge the customer for credit-card fees. Oh, you want to do that? I'll show you why restaurants were among the first to adopt credit payments even with merchant fees: because when you pay cash, some employees steal. And they steal a lot.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      The card costs them money to process, so they tack on approximately that amount. And you can opt out by paying cash. Seems fair, though maybe the card price should be default.
      - devilbunny 3y ago
        Cash costs money to process, too. I want the manager to have to run to the bank several times a day to get fresh change and deposit cash, tearing out their hair from frustration, for imposing such an annoying requirement.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        Oh that cash isn't going to the bank, at least not all of it.
        devilbunny 3y ago
        No, no, definitely not. I'm talking about the parts they can't hide as easily.
bradgessler 3y ago
And sales tax, CA “paint disposal fees”, CA bottle fees, and all the other crap CA (and municipalities) tack onto their bills?
- Wistar 3y ago
  My cable/fiber bill is chock full of fees — many apparently imposed by the city, county, and state.
  - sowbug 3y ago
    Some, such as Verizon's Telco Recovery Charge, are completely made up by the provider! How that isn't just fraud is beyond me.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      There's a class action suit forming against Verizon for that practice. https://www.hattislaw.com/cases/verizon-wireless-bogus-fees/ https://www.hattislaw.com/cases/verizon-wireless-bogus-fees/
  - sacnoradhq 3y ago
    That's how predatory gotcha capitalism works.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
No, not like tips. Expected tips are known up front, they are variable, and I certainly think it's totally fine to not tip in places where it's not usually expected, "flipping around the iPad" be damned.
- krab 3y ago
  It's not true that tips are known up front. E.g. when you're travelling, you don't know. And taxes are (can be) also known up front. But that's the point - avoid the guesswork and let me know what you expect me to pay.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    Tips are completely discretionary. You are always free to tip zero. That may make you an asshole depending on local customs but I’m not aware of any place on earth where not leaving a tip will get you in legal trouble. Not paying a last minute hidden fee might.
WillPostForFood 3y ago
The hidden fee that I hope this deals with is the mandatory "resort fee" that is showing up more and more frequently on hotel bills. You find an online room rate for $120, go to book it, and it is $120 + $50 resort fee + taxes, and it ends up being > $200.
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago
  Hotels are the perfect example where they can show you a final price, as the tax paid is the local price, not the one where you reside. We can make the argument that it is hard for Amazon to show you the price of widget X, as it changes where it gets shipped. But for a hotel it doesn't matter whether you fly in from Alaska (no sales tax) or Los Angeles (9.25% I believe) You pay the rate of the state and city where the hotel is at.
jrflowers 3y ago
> Like tips? This is a good point. When I go to a coffee shop and order a latte I am buying a latte and the appreciation of the person that makes it. If they think I’m a dick it renders my coffee undrinkable and the comfort in knowing that I’m liked should be free.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  See, that's the problem, people are worried that if they don't tip that employee is going to do something to their food. That's absolutely disgusting. Maybe I should piss on the dollar before I give it to them?
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    The thrill of dining at places with suspect food safety is hard to match! We should ask the government to step in and ban the thing that is in my mind keeping everyone from pissing in my soup so that we can all share in the rush of severe food anxiety.
sneak 3y ago
Tipping is optional.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Not only is tipping not mandatory, it’s not hidden either. You know that every restaurant will want a tip, there’s no surprise factor.
Rebelgecko 3y ago
No, mpre like the "service fees" or "healthcare/inflation surcharges" that some restaurants have started tacking on pre-tip
archontes 3y ago
Would you call a tip unavoidable?

by krab 3y ago

rahimnathwani 3y ago

I guess tips are technically not 'unavoidable'.

krab 3y ago
Yes, I understand. But if you want to come to the same restaurant again and you don't tip, it may be a problem. Imagine Amazon not wanting to do business with you because you didn't add extra X% to your previous purchase.
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  That's the restaurant's problem not mine.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
    Clearly you haven't learned the lesson of not fucking with those who make your food.
    - kwhitefoot 3y ago
      if the place is that bad I wouldn't want to go back anyway.

dehrmann 3y ago

At least tips are expected. It's the 5% "employee support fee" that annoys me because it's a hidden fee, and it's not clear how it relates to tips.

krab 3y ago
Never heard of that, sounds funny. :-)
- devilbunny 3y ago
  There's a restaurant I've given up on for one of those fees. It's not on their PDF menus at all, nor the HTML ones. Just a nice little surprise when you go there. Fuck you. Pay your employees out of my bill, or go out of business, but don't tell me I owe 4% more for "kitchen support". Much like restaurants that want to charge the customer for credit-card fees. Oh, you want to do that? I'll show you why restaurants were among the first to adopt credit payments even with merchant fees: because when you pay cash, some employees steal. And they steal a lot.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    The card costs them money to process, so they tack on approximately that amount. And you can opt out by paying cash. Seems fair, though maybe the card price should be default.
    - devilbunny 3y ago
      Cash costs money to process, too. I want the manager to have to run to the bank several times a day to get fresh change and deposit cash, tearing out their hair from frustration, for imposing such an annoying requirement.
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        Oh that cash isn't going to the bank, at least not all of it.
        devilbunny 3y ago
        No, no, definitely not. I'm talking about the parts they can't hide as easily.

bradgessler 3y ago

And sales tax, CA “paint disposal fees”, CA bottle fees, and all the other crap CA (and municipalities) tack onto their bills?

Wistar 3y ago
My cable/fiber bill is chock full of fees — many apparently imposed by the city, county, and state.
- sowbug 3y ago
  Some, such as Verizon's Telco Recovery Charge, are completely made up by the provider! How that isn't just fraud is beyond me.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    There's a class action suit forming against Verizon for that practice. https://www.hattislaw.com/cases/verizon-wireless-bogus-fees/ https://www.hattislaw.com/cases/verizon-wireless-bogus-fees/
- sacnoradhq 3y ago
  That's how predatory gotcha capitalism works.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

No, not like tips. Expected tips are known up front, they are variable, and I certainly think it's totally fine to not tip in places where it's not usually expected, "flipping around the iPad" be damned.

krab 3y ago
It's not true that tips are known up front. E.g. when you're travelling, you don't know. And taxes are (can be) also known up front. But that's the point - avoid the guesswork and let me know what you expect me to pay.
- brewdad 3y ago
  Tips are completely discretionary. You are always free to tip zero. That may make you an asshole depending on local customs but I’m not aware of any place on earth where not leaving a tip will get you in legal trouble. Not paying a last minute hidden fee might.

WillPostForFood 3y ago

The hidden fee that I hope this deals with is the mandatory "resort fee" that is showing up more and more frequently on hotel bills. You find an online room rate for $120, go to book it, and it is $120 + $50 resort fee + taxes, and it ends up being > $200.

WirelessGigabit 3y ago
Hotels are the perfect example where they can show you a final price, as the tax paid is the local price, not the one where you reside. We can make the argument that it is hard for Amazon to show you the price of widget X, as it changes where it gets shipped. But for a hotel it doesn't matter whether you fly in from Alaska (no sales tax) or Los Angeles (9.25% I believe) You pay the rate of the state and city where the hotel is at.

jrflowers 3y ago

> Like tips? This is a good point. When I go to a coffee shop and order a latte I am buying a latte and the appreciation of the person that makes it. If they think I’m a dick it renders my coffee undrinkable and the comfort in knowing that I’m liked should be free.

Simulacra 3y ago
See, that's the problem, people are worried that if they don't tip that employee is going to do something to their food. That's absolutely disgusting. Maybe I should piss on the dollar before I give it to them?
- jrflowers 3y ago
  The thrill of dining at places with suspect food safety is hard to match! We should ask the government to step in and ban the thing that is in my mind keeping everyone from pissing in my soup so that we can all share in the rush of severe food anxiety.

sneak 3y ago

Tipping is optional.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Not only is tipping not mandatory, it’s not hidden either. You know that every restaurant will want a tip, there’s no surprise factor.

Rebelgecko 3y ago

No, mpre like the "service fees" or "healthcare/inflation surcharges" that some restaurants have started tacking on pre-tip

archontes 3y ago

Would you call a tip unavoidable?