6 ms·

They should ban tipping too.

ekianjo 3y ago
That would be an actual improvement
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Everyone always says this, and it's basically never going to happen, at least in the US. Tons of places have tried to ban tipping and just include the service in the cost of the item. They nearly always revert because the best workers leave to make more money at a tipping joint.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Not just that, some businesses that try no-tipping end up having to raise their prices significantly more than the average tip amount, since paying their workers a higher non-tipped wage means they have to pay more in payroll taxes too.
  - astrange 3y ago
    That doesn't apply to California, which already doesn't have a tipped minimum wage. But waiters like tips, because it means they get paid more.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  If tipping is banned in a place (by the local government I mean), where exactly are the "best workers" going to go? Are they going to pack up and move somewhere else? Also, how are the tipped staff the "best workers"? They're just servers. All they have to do is take an order. It's incredible how much money they expect for this, when it's something that would be more efficiently done with an iPad. In US restaurants, they're even too lazy to bring the food for you; I guess they're too busy trying to act like the customer's new best friend.
  - heimidal 3y ago
    > If tipping is banned in a place (by the local government I mean), where exactly are the "best workers" going to go? Are they going to pack up and move somewhere else? Tipping was banned in seven US states about a hundred years ago. For the most part, People simply ignored the laws. They were all repealed or found unconstitutional after a couple decades. I am not aware of anywhere in the world where tipping a server is illegal. > Also, how are the tipped staff the "best workers"? They're just servers. All they have to do is take an order. "Best workers" would include highly competent servers who are a direct cause of repeat business. A good server adds to the experience beyond the food and ambiance and help turn new customers into regulars. Regulars are the lifeblood of most restaurants. > It's incredible how much money they expect for this, when it's something that would be more efficiently done with an iPad. Servers can make suggestions based on your preferences, make sure your dietary restrictions are handled, answer questions about the menu... these are experiences I have all the time and I'm certain an iPad would be worse. > In US restaurants, they're even too lazy to bring the food for you; I guess they're too busy trying to act like the customer's new best friend. Servers bring out the food I order. I don't even know how to respond beyond that. Maybe you're just going to really bad restaurants?
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      >A good server adds to the experience beyond the food and ambiance and help turn new customers into regulars. What, by acting like their best friend? This is definitely something weird about America. Here outside America, it isn't like that at all. There's no tipping, and servers just give you what you ask, though of course they'll answer questions and such. But they don't socialize with you; I don't need to pay someone to act like my friend and chat with me. It's only in American restaurants that I've had this annoying experience.
      - heimidal 3y ago
        What is certainly true is that Americans are culturally more friendly toward strangers. Americans smiling and talking a lot is a cliche at this point. However, I would bet the "best friend" experiences that you have had would be nothing but simple pleasantries to a typical American. Tipping culture has little to do with it; "friendliness" is regarded as an element of excellent service here. Even in situations where no tip is ever expected, such as in a clothing store, workers are trained to be as friendly and overly helpful as possible. For what it's worth, I have memories of extremely friendly waitstaff in Europe -- dare I say "American-esque". Just this summer, a French bartender in the Marais asked where we were from. When we answered "the US", she launched into a story about a trip she'd taken to New York. She talked about how much she loved seeing a Broadway show, Central Park, and MoMA. I watched her carry on with a British couple and many French patrons in the same way, returning to grab us another glass of wine and chat some more. The French people present seemed just as happy to chat with her as we were. I have similar stories from London, Florence, Barcelona, and Tokyo (just off the top of my head). It's certainly not common, but I've seen it several times. Americans often say most Europeans are stiff and uptight. Europeans often think the opposite of Americans. You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it, but it's just a cultural difference that you're choosing to find distasteful.

That would be an actual improvement

Everyone always says this, and it's basically never going to happen, at least in the US. Tons of places have tried to ban tipping and just include the service in the cost of the item. They nearly always revert because the best workers leave to make more money at a tipping joint.

kelnos 3y ago
Not just that, some businesses that try no-tipping end up having to raise their prices significantly more than the average tip amount, since paying their workers a higher non-tipped wage means they have to pay more in payroll taxes too.
- astrange 3y ago
  That doesn't apply to California, which already doesn't have a tipped minimum wage. But waiters like tips, because it means they get paid more.
shiroiuma 3y ago
If tipping is banned in a place (by the local government I mean), where exactly are the "best workers" going to go? Are they going to pack up and move somewhere else? Also, how are the tipped staff the "best workers"? They're just servers. All they have to do is take an order. It's incredible how much money they expect for this, when it's something that would be more efficiently done with an iPad. In US restaurants, they're even too lazy to bring the food for you; I guess they're too busy trying to act like the customer's new best friend.
- heimidal 3y ago
  > If tipping is banned in a place (by the local government I mean), where exactly are the "best workers" going to go? Are they going to pack up and move somewhere else? Tipping was banned in seven US states about a hundred years ago. For the most part, People simply ignored the laws. They were all repealed or found unconstitutional after a couple decades. I am not aware of anywhere in the world where tipping a server is illegal. > Also, how are the tipped staff the "best workers"? They're just servers. All they have to do is take an order. "Best workers" would include highly competent servers who are a direct cause of repeat business. A good server adds to the experience beyond the food and ambiance and help turn new customers into regulars. Regulars are the lifeblood of most restaurants. > It's incredible how much money they expect for this, when it's something that would be more efficiently done with an iPad. Servers can make suggestions based on your preferences, make sure your dietary restrictions are handled, answer questions about the menu... these are experiences I have all the time and I'm certain an iPad would be worse. > In US restaurants, they're even too lazy to bring the food for you; I guess they're too busy trying to act like the customer's new best friend. Servers bring out the food I order. I don't even know how to respond beyond that. Maybe you're just going to really bad restaurants?
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    >A good server adds to the experience beyond the food and ambiance and help turn new customers into regulars. What, by acting like their best friend? This is definitely something weird about America. Here outside America, it isn't like that at all. There's no tipping, and servers just give you what you ask, though of course they'll answer questions and such. But they don't socialize with you; I don't need to pay someone to act like my friend and chat with me. It's only in American restaurants that I've had this annoying experience.
    - heimidal 3y ago
      What is certainly true is that Americans are culturally more friendly toward strangers. Americans smiling and talking a lot is a cliche at this point. However, I would bet the "best friend" experiences that you have had would be nothing but simple pleasantries to a typical American. Tipping culture has little to do with it; "friendliness" is regarded as an element of excellent service here. Even in situations where no tip is ever expected, such as in a clothing store, workers are trained to be as friendly and overly helpful as possible. For what it's worth, I have memories of extremely friendly waitstaff in Europe -- dare I say "American-esque". Just this summer, a French bartender in the Marais asked where we were from. When we answered "the US", she launched into a story about a trip she'd taken to New York. She talked about how much she loved seeing a Broadway show, Central Park, and MoMA. I watched her carry on with a British couple and many French patrons in the same way, returning to grab us another glass of wine and chat some more. The French people present seemed just as happy to chat with her as we were. I have similar stories from London, Florence, Barcelona, and Tokyo (just off the top of my head). It's certainly not common, but I've seen it several times. Americans often say most Europeans are stiff and uptight. Europeans often think the opposite of Americans. You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it, but it's just a cultural difference that you're choosing to find distasteful.