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Not putting this product down at all, but it's sad that it's necessary. You should be able to plug an HDMI-to-DisplayPort adapter in and use the iPad as a monit

Not putting this product down at all, but it's sad that it's necessary. You should be able to plug an HDMI-to-DisplayPort adapter in and use the iPad as a monitor already. Just as you should be able to do this with Apple Vision. Apple's fear of I/O has crippled its mobile devices unfortunately.

lloeki 3y ago
Maybe I'm a bit of touch with non-Apple hardware but except for iMacs from 2009-2014 and their Target Display mode, I don't know of any computer or tablet that can be turned into a screen without third party software+hardware, so I don't get what this jab at Apple specifically means.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  This isn't talking about computers. It's talking about a tablet that already suffers from intentionally crippled capabilities. Apple has always prevented developers from accessing the I/O ports on iOS devices, and I don't expect that to end with the switch to USB. Apple even cripples the Bluetooth functionality on said devices. And then of course there's the removal of the headphone/microphone jack. That's what this jab means: Apple has deliberately hobbled its mobile devices from connecting to the world around them.
  - lloeki 3y ago
    > This isn't talking about computers. It's talking about a tablet that already suffers from intentionally crippled capabilities. You're missing the point: how can one blame Apple for a missing feature that is nonexistent OOTB on any other non-Apple hardware out there? By using that specific feature as a metric of crippledness, all computing hardware - including, but not limited to, direct iPad competitors -, Apple or not, is crippled. Now, by itself it doesn't dismiss the argument that Apple cripples connectivity, only that not having that feature you suggested built in implies Apple specifically is crippling connectivity is a non-sequitur. That said, I would argue that the following does invalidate the argument: > and I don't expect that to end with the switch to USB† Looks to me that you can develop quite arbitrary things since iPadOS 16: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit/creating_drivers_for_ipados https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit/creating... https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit > Use the USBDriverKit framework to develop drivers for custom or non-class-compliant USB devices There's even PCIe in there (presumably thanks to Thunderbolt support?). Crazy thought: theoretically one could develop a driver for eGPU? > Use the PCIDriverKit framework to develop drivers that manage custom features on your Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) and PCI-Express hardware These software+hardware things don't develop themselves overnight, and I would consider the following to be a very reasonable deliberate reason for "hobbling" up til now: > The drivers you build with DriverKit run in user space, rather than as kernel extensions, which improves system stability and security. I would presume that DriverKit is how communication with the Orion capture card is developed - and that's assuming iPadOS does not support video capture class devices by itself. I think it does, at least to an extend, because this is a thing: https://www.macstories.net/stories/i-used-a-game-boy-camera-for-facetime-video-calls-in-ipados-17-and-it-was-glorious/ https://www.macstories.net/stories/i-used-a-game-boy-camera-... > The way UVC capture works on iPad Pro is simple: if a compatible camera is connected to the iPad, apps like FaceTime (and iPadOS 17 ones that have added support for the new API) will switch to it as the default video source > During my tests with UVC devices, I noticed that, just like the FaceTime app can pick up the Studio Display’s webcam when the iPad Pro is connected to it, so it can use other UVC devices’ input as its video source. To prove my point, I plugged a Steam Deck into the capture card, connected it to the iPad Pro, opened FaceTime, and there it was: Elden Ring on FaceTime. For DriverKit there is this notable caveat (emphasis mine): > The base DriverKit framework is available in macOS for Apple silicon and Intel-based Mac computers, and in iPadOS for devices with an M1 processor. The availability of family frameworks like USBDriverKit and AudioDriverKit varies by platform. Although I'm half-expecting that over time Mx SoCs with eventually trickle down the iPad tiers, ultimately dropping Ax, and providing iPadOS a single consistent hardware target. I would also venture that the iOS/iPadOS split had Mx for iPad as a big driver. † To be pedantic, it's a switch to USB-C (the plug), not USB (the protocol), which has always been there ever since Lightning. It's the SoC that matters here, not the plug.
    - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
      The DriverKit info is encouraging, certainly. I haven't explored it yet. But I can blame Apple independently for anything. Who cares what anyone else does? It may be an edge case, but not a non-sequitur for Apple's connectivity fears. Nobody should get a free pass for sucking only as much as anyone else. WTF kind of excuse is that?
- goosedragons 3y ago
  There was some. Cathode Ray Dude recently did a video on an Alienware laptop with HDMI in. This isn't really the same thing though. It's letting you use a USB capture card with your iPad. This is something already doable with random Android devices for years and has limitations like latency and quality.
bzzzt 3y ago
Take a laptop, any laptop and tell me if they will act like a monitor when I plug in my Nintendo Switch via USB-C. The problem is not fear of I/O. The problem is it's expensive to cater to all possible scenario's (different expectations regarding connectivity, resolution, color space and refresh) so you'll end up with a mix of scenarios that work and a lot that don't. Besides that, I didn't buy a laptop as an external monitor for a game console so why should I pay more to get that scenario supported?
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  I never mentioned laptops. This isn't a laptop. It's a device that already suffers from gimped capabilities compared to a computer of similar bulk and cost. So any way you can add utility to it is worth considering.
- adrianmsmith 3y ago
  Not a laptop, but as evidence this sort of thing is sometimes possible, you used to be able to use iMacs as external monitors.
- MenhirMike 3y ago
  There's a video on Cathode Ray Dude [CRD]'s YouTube channel about Alienware's combo laptop/monitor where he goes into the inner layout of supporting all sorts of inputs/outputs, which I found pretty enlightening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otln0Ao2z6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otln0Ao2z6M (starting about 8 minutes in, with a pretty neat diagram at 12:39). And yeah, you're exactly right: It adds cost, even with a seemingly "simple" device like an iPad that has only 3 possible signal paths (To Display, Out to USB-C, In from USB-C).

lloeki 3y ago

Maybe I'm a bit of touch with non-Apple hardware but except for iMacs from 2009-2014 and their Target Display mode, I don't know of any computer or tablet that can be turned into a screen without third party software+hardware, so I don't get what this jab at Apple specifically means.

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
This isn't talking about computers. It's talking about a tablet that already suffers from intentionally crippled capabilities. Apple has always prevented developers from accessing the I/O ports on iOS devices, and I don't expect that to end with the switch to USB. Apple even cripples the Bluetooth functionality on said devices. And then of course there's the removal of the headphone/microphone jack. That's what this jab means: Apple has deliberately hobbled its mobile devices from connecting to the world around them.
- lloeki 3y ago
  > This isn't talking about computers. It's talking about a tablet that already suffers from intentionally crippled capabilities. You're missing the point: how can one blame Apple for a missing feature that is nonexistent OOTB on any other non-Apple hardware out there? By using that specific feature as a metric of crippledness, all computing hardware - including, but not limited to, direct iPad competitors -, Apple or not, is crippled. Now, by itself it doesn't dismiss the argument that Apple cripples connectivity, only that not having that feature you suggested built in implies Apple specifically is crippling connectivity is a non-sequitur. That said, I would argue that the following does invalidate the argument: > and I don't expect that to end with the switch to USB† Looks to me that you can develop quite arbitrary things since iPadOS 16: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit/creating_drivers_for_ipados https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit/creating... https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit https://developer.apple.com/documentation/driverkit > Use the USBDriverKit framework to develop drivers for custom or non-class-compliant USB devices There's even PCIe in there (presumably thanks to Thunderbolt support?). Crazy thought: theoretically one could develop a driver for eGPU? > Use the PCIDriverKit framework to develop drivers that manage custom features on your Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) and PCI-Express hardware These software+hardware things don't develop themselves overnight, and I would consider the following to be a very reasonable deliberate reason for "hobbling" up til now: > The drivers you build with DriverKit run in user space, rather than as kernel extensions, which improves system stability and security. I would presume that DriverKit is how communication with the Orion capture card is developed - and that's assuming iPadOS does not support video capture class devices by itself. I think it does, at least to an extend, because this is a thing: https://www.macstories.net/stories/i-used-a-game-boy-camera-for-facetime-video-calls-in-ipados-17-and-it-was-glorious/ https://www.macstories.net/stories/i-used-a-game-boy-camera-... > The way UVC capture works on iPad Pro is simple: if a compatible camera is connected to the iPad, apps like FaceTime (and iPadOS 17 ones that have added support for the new API) will switch to it as the default video source > During my tests with UVC devices, I noticed that, just like the FaceTime app can pick up the Studio Display’s webcam when the iPad Pro is connected to it, so it can use other UVC devices’ input as its video source. To prove my point, I plugged a Steam Deck into the capture card, connected it to the iPad Pro, opened FaceTime, and there it was: Elden Ring on FaceTime. For DriverKit there is this notable caveat (emphasis mine): > The base DriverKit framework is available in macOS for Apple silicon and Intel-based Mac computers, and in iPadOS for devices with an M1 processor. The availability of family frameworks like USBDriverKit and AudioDriverKit varies by platform. Although I'm half-expecting that over time Mx SoCs with eventually trickle down the iPad tiers, ultimately dropping Ax, and providing iPadOS a single consistent hardware target. I would also venture that the iOS/iPadOS split had Mx for iPad as a big driver. † To be pedantic, it's a switch to USB-C (the plug), not USB (the protocol), which has always been there ever since Lightning. It's the SoC that matters here, not the plug.
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    The DriverKit info is encouraging, certainly. I haven't explored it yet. But I can blame Apple independently for anything. Who cares what anyone else does? It may be an edge case, but not a non-sequitur for Apple's connectivity fears. Nobody should get a free pass for sucking only as much as anyone else. WTF kind of excuse is that?
goosedragons 3y ago
There was some. Cathode Ray Dude recently did a video on an Alienware laptop with HDMI in. This isn't really the same thing though. It's letting you use a USB capture card with your iPad. This is something already doable with random Android devices for years and has limitations like latency and quality.

bzzzt 3y ago

Take a laptop, any laptop and tell me if they will act like a monitor when I plug in my Nintendo Switch via USB-C. The problem is not fear of I/O. The problem is it's expensive to cater to all possible scenario's (different expectations regarding connectivity, resolution, color space and refresh) so you'll end up with a mix of scenarios that work and a lot that don't. Besides that, I didn't buy a laptop as an external monitor for a game console so why should I pay more to get that scenario supported?

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
I never mentioned laptops. This isn't a laptop. It's a device that already suffers from gimped capabilities compared to a computer of similar bulk and cost. So any way you can add utility to it is worth considering.
adrianmsmith 3y ago
Not a laptop, but as evidence this sort of thing is sometimes possible, you used to be able to use iMacs as external monitors.
MenhirMike 3y ago
There's a video on Cathode Ray Dude [CRD]'s YouTube channel about Alienware's combo laptop/monitor where he goes into the inner layout of supporting all sorts of inputs/outputs, which I found pretty enlightening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otln0Ao2z6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otln0Ao2z6M (starting about 8 minutes in, with a pretty neat diagram at 12:39). And yeah, you're exactly right: It adds cost, even with a seemingly "simple" device like an iPad that has only 3 possible signal paths (To Display, Out to USB-C, In from USB-C).