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I have been missing sleep since child was born. The post is pretty accurate. I now fully understand why some people don't want to get kids.

elteto 3y ago
[flagged]
- guidoism 3y ago
  I’m fairly confident that the lack of sleep during my first child’s first two years permanently altered my brain in way that has seriously affected my ability to do my job. I think there is research to back my claim that sleep can change your brain just as trauma does.
  - cma 3y ago
    The thing to realize is your (I am presuming) inflexible job was probably as responsible as your kid. They should let you work very flexible hours if you just had a kid unless by nature it just can't be done for that job.
    - guidoism 3y ago
      Reasonable assumption but in this case I was able to be flexible enough. The problem was my child not sleeping more than a couple hours at a time and our stupid adherence to the "baby should sleep in a different rule" in the US.
  - petemir 3y ago
    Another anecdote, but I remember someone here commenting that after several days without sleep he got his amygdala (maybe?) physically damaged and that permanently f-ed up his sleep schedule. As a terminal procrastinator who frequently pulls all-nighters (this year I even got to two in 3 days) I was terrified (and apparently decided to never comply with any deadline anymore, but that's another story).
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      I wonder how possible it is to permanently damage the brain without physically impacting it or rooting around in there. There are studies that show visible changes in the amygdala and other structures in the brain after 8 weeks of 15 minutes per day of mindfullness meditation for instance. One "side effect" of it for me has been noticeable memory improvements. The brain changes in response to stimuli for sure, but the changes may be reversible.
- bentcorner 3y ago
  It does sound shallow, that's because having children impacts you more than for a year or two and it's more than just losing sleep.
- Broken_Hippo 3y ago
  Honestly, no reason for not having children is good enough for some people. I'm a woman in my mid-40s. I do not have children and have simply never wanted children. I've been called selfish, shallow, and other such things. Something must be wrong with me. No man will ever marry me if I won't have children. I'll change my mind - on a scale of "because I'm young and stupid" to "biological clock will kick in". None of this is true, of course.
  - markus_zhang 3y ago
    Back in the day I discussed the no-child option with my wife. We are both cool with it, but neither of us really stood a firm ground so we eventually gave birth to my son. It has been a mixed experience and I totally get why people don't want kid(s). I usually have an open mind to other people's personal choices. I rarely judge other people's personal choices. This is probably one of my few good qualities.
Aurornis 3y ago
It can be difficult, but it's also just a blip on the radar. I don't know if this is your first or second, but I found that everything was significantly easier the second time around. I didn't realize how much my wife and I had learned to handle things more efficiently and split the load better over time. You learn quickly. > I now fully understand why some people don't want to get kids. I don't know about that. I think the current trend is greatly overestimating the lifetime impact of some of these short-term difficulties of child raising. If someone actually wants kids but avoids it because they don't want their sleep inconvenienced for a couple percent of their entire life, I'd question if they're weighing the tradeoffs appropriately. It's a choice for the rest of your life, but some people treat it like those first several months are the entirety of the decision making process, which is weird.
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  I also heard that the second is easier, but it is still some drain so we decided not to get a second one. I think it really depends on 1) How much energy one has stored before getting the kid, and 2) How easy/difficult the kid could be. It's definitely not just a few months. It has been 3 years for me and I don't really think it's going to end soon. Again this is just personal, not an average experience.
  - musha68k 3y ago
    Difference between parental experience can be wild. Sometimes up to literal survivorship bias talk from other parents; can be mildly annoying but ultimately I always feel happy for them and their kid(s) that they just don’t seem to (want to?) really know better. Again, good for them - and us all - lest we’d have gone extinct long time ago ;)
    - Aurornis 3y ago
      I’ve also had a few friends who manage to burn out in every situation. They’ve burned out in every job they’ve ever had, they burned out in college, they burned out in high school, etc. So of course, they’re burning out with parenting now too. At some point, we have to acknowledge that personality plays a big role in this. Some people create their own stress in any situation.
xyzelement 3y ago
Any parent will tell you that having kids is not going to help your sleep, but most parents find sacrifice unequivocally worth it on the net. Not sure if this is truly what you meant but I would find it highly abnormal that a child does not bring your sufficient joy and meaning that would offset sleep loss.
- hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
  I have a few bullet points about this: 1. Most people would never say bad things about parenting because it makes them look like demons. I basically tell my friends and colleagues that it is OK and I'm still not sure whether it worths it or not. That's as far honest as I'm willing, although it is pretty close to truth nowadays. I was a lot more snarky a year ago. 2. Humans are very good at adapting. If you told me 3 years ago that I have to go through all these, I'd never think about getting a kid. But somehow it actually feels OK now. And that's what I tell other people. 3. Having kids basically means having a completely different life style for me. I can see why some people actually feel so excited about it because their life style actually fit. It's about trading one life style to another, and this is something we rarely told others, who nevertheless never bother to ask anyway, because they don't know what to ask. Nowadays, I'd tell any young people to get their dreams done before getting a kid, unless they really really want it. You want to go travel the world? Do it before getting a kid. You want to teach yourself a long chain of Mathematics/Physics topics? Do it before getting a kid. I'm not saying you can't do them after having kids, but it's a LOT safer to do them before.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    Obviously subjective but I don't agree with the final bullet point. I believe that human happiness is primarily determined by the amount of meaning and impact we have. If someone is learning math/physics because they are committed to furthering the world through some breakthrough then yes kids would be deteminetal to that But if you are just randomly amusing yourself learning topics and one day you are 50+ the ship on family has basically sailed. And you look back on your life as a bunch of short term amusement that gets you to a very depressing place.
  - 3y ago

elteto 3y ago

[flagged]

guidoism 3y ago
I’m fairly confident that the lack of sleep during my first child’s first two years permanently altered my brain in way that has seriously affected my ability to do my job. I think there is research to back my claim that sleep can change your brain just as trauma does.
- cma 3y ago
  The thing to realize is your (I am presuming) inflexible job was probably as responsible as your kid. They should let you work very flexible hours if you just had a kid unless by nature it just can't be done for that job.
  - guidoism 3y ago
    Reasonable assumption but in this case I was able to be flexible enough. The problem was my child not sleeping more than a couple hours at a time and our stupid adherence to the "baby should sleep in a different rule" in the US.
- petemir 3y ago
  Another anecdote, but I remember someone here commenting that after several days without sleep he got his amygdala (maybe?) physically damaged and that permanently f-ed up his sleep schedule. As a terminal procrastinator who frequently pulls all-nighters (this year I even got to two in 3 days) I was terrified (and apparently decided to never comply with any deadline anymore, but that's another story).
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    I wonder how possible it is to permanently damage the brain without physically impacting it or rooting around in there. There are studies that show visible changes in the amygdala and other structures in the brain after 8 weeks of 15 minutes per day of mindfullness meditation for instance. One "side effect" of it for me has been noticeable memory improvements. The brain changes in response to stimuli for sure, but the changes may be reversible.
bentcorner 3y ago
It does sound shallow, that's because having children impacts you more than for a year or two and it's more than just losing sleep.
Broken_Hippo 3y ago
Honestly, no reason for not having children is good enough for some people. I'm a woman in my mid-40s. I do not have children and have simply never wanted children. I've been called selfish, shallow, and other such things. Something must be wrong with me. No man will ever marry me if I won't have children. I'll change my mind - on a scale of "because I'm young and stupid" to "biological clock will kick in". None of this is true, of course.
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  Back in the day I discussed the no-child option with my wife. We are both cool with it, but neither of us really stood a firm ground so we eventually gave birth to my son. It has been a mixed experience and I totally get why people don't want kid(s). I usually have an open mind to other people's personal choices. I rarely judge other people's personal choices. This is probably one of my few good qualities.

Aurornis 3y ago

It can be difficult, but it's also just a blip on the radar. I don't know if this is your first or second, but I found that everything was significantly easier the second time around. I didn't realize how much my wife and I had learned to handle things more efficiently and split the load better over time. You learn quickly. > I now fully understand why some people don't want to get kids. I don't know about that. I think the current trend is greatly overestimating the lifetime impact of some of these short-term difficulties of child raising. If someone actually wants kids but avoids it because they don't want their sleep inconvenienced for a couple percent of their entire life, I'd question if they're weighing the tradeoffs appropriately. It's a choice for the rest of your life, but some people treat it like those first several months are the entirety of the decision making process, which is weird.

markus_zhang 3y ago
I also heard that the second is easier, but it is still some drain so we decided not to get a second one. I think it really depends on 1) How much energy one has stored before getting the kid, and 2) How easy/difficult the kid could be. It's definitely not just a few months. It has been 3 years for me and I don't really think it's going to end soon. Again this is just personal, not an average experience.
- musha68k 3y ago
  Difference between parental experience can be wild. Sometimes up to literal survivorship bias talk from other parents; can be mildly annoying but ultimately I always feel happy for them and their kid(s) that they just don’t seem to (want to?) really know better. Again, good for them - and us all - lest we’d have gone extinct long time ago ;)
  - Aurornis 3y ago
    I’ve also had a few friends who manage to burn out in every situation. They’ve burned out in every job they’ve ever had, they burned out in college, they burned out in high school, etc. So of course, they’re burning out with parenting now too. At some point, we have to acknowledge that personality plays a big role in this. Some people create their own stress in any situation.

xyzelement 3y ago

Any parent will tell you that having kids is not going to help your sleep, but most parents find sacrifice unequivocally worth it on the net. Not sure if this is truly what you meant but I would find it highly abnormal that a child does not bring your sufficient joy and meaning that would offset sleep loss.

hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
I have a few bullet points about this: 1. Most people would never say bad things about parenting because it makes them look like demons. I basically tell my friends and colleagues that it is OK and I'm still not sure whether it worths it or not. That's as far honest as I'm willing, although it is pretty close to truth nowadays. I was a lot more snarky a year ago. 2. Humans are very good at adapting. If you told me 3 years ago that I have to go through all these, I'd never think about getting a kid. But somehow it actually feels OK now. And that's what I tell other people. 3. Having kids basically means having a completely different life style for me. I can see why some people actually feel so excited about it because their life style actually fit. It's about trading one life style to another, and this is something we rarely told others, who nevertheless never bother to ask anyway, because they don't know what to ask. Nowadays, I'd tell any young people to get their dreams done before getting a kid, unless they really really want it. You want to go travel the world? Do it before getting a kid. You want to teach yourself a long chain of Mathematics/Physics topics? Do it before getting a kid. I'm not saying you can't do them after having kids, but it's a LOT safer to do them before.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Obviously subjective but I don't agree with the final bullet point. I believe that human happiness is primarily determined by the amount of meaning and impact we have. If someone is learning math/physics because they are committed to furthering the world through some breakthrough then yes kids would be deteminetal to that But if you are just randomly amusing yourself learning topics and one day you are 50+ the ship on family has basically sailed. And you look back on your life as a bunch of short term amusement that gets you to a very depressing place.
- 3y ago