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So. Uh. Can’t speak to the bill, or the veto, but turns out Letting someone else tell who you are is - generally speaking - a Bad Thing. And, turns out If y

So. Uh. Can’t speak to the bill, or the veto, but turns out Letting someone else tell who you are is - generally speaking - a Bad Thing. And, turns out If you’re telling someone who you are, and they say “No, you’re not that” - well, that’s generally an even worse thing. Plus, denying autonomy - and I’ll go out in a serious limb here - IMHO is pretty antithetical to “home of the free”.

vel0city 3y ago
They're talking about children. They're denied autonomy all the time. It's absolutely normal and fine usually, they're not mentally developed. Next thing you know I'll be hearing five year olds should be able to sign apartment leases drive cars or smoke cigarettes or work a full time job. After all we wouldn't want to deny autonomy.
- RangerScience 3y ago
  (to paraphrase some quotes from some greats) I cannot rightly comprehend the ignorance of history that would engender such an utterance. I do not think that this statement is sufficiently genuine to require refutation. Reflection would be more appropriate: perhaps this should be sought in the replacement of the word “children” with any subjugated group, from “women” to “black people” to “Sicilians” to “Irish” to “<any First Nations people> to… —- People deserve the support of their families and communities in their self-actualization, and while of course that looks different for children, if you’re the kind of person that doesn’t look at kids as people then I wouldn’t be surprised to find you’re the kind of parent that finds themselves cut out of the lives of their kids as soon as they’re able.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    I'm not saying you shouldn't support people in their self-actualization, but the argument that they should be highly autonomous is absurd. We don't let kids drive for a reason, right? We assume they shouldn't be able to buy alcohol or cigarettes right? Or do you disagree with these ideas? After all you're equating not letting kids buy cigarettes as the subjugation of black people in the US. Sure, I give my kid some autonomy. I let him choose what he wants for breakfast in the morning, for example. But the deck was stacked against him. If he had actual autonomy the pantry would be nothing but candy and cookies. But I've already decided, and removed that autonomic choices from him. I guess I'm a bad parent for not letting him have free reign at the grocery store, letting him fully choose what he'll have every meal. > perhaps this should be sought in the replacement of the word “children” with any subjugated group, from “women” to “black people” to “Sicilians” to “Irish” to “<any First Nations people> to… Ok let me try your logic. Children should not be allowed to work. Women should not be allowed to work. Oof, not good. Well I guess child labor is back. I could go on and on. Maybe this rule doesn't make nearly as much sense as you think it does. > I cannot rightly comprehend the ignorance of history that would engender such an utterance. Yeah, I can't comprehend you suggesting the above logic as the right way to determine if a child should have autonomy or not.
triffil 3y ago
For girls claiming to be boys or boys saying that they're girls, it's a case of them telling someone who they aren't.

vel0city 3y ago

They're talking about children. They're denied autonomy all the time. It's absolutely normal and fine usually, they're not mentally developed. Next thing you know I'll be hearing five year olds should be able to sign apartment leases drive cars or smoke cigarettes or work a full time job. After all we wouldn't want to deny autonomy.

RangerScience 3y ago
(to paraphrase some quotes from some greats) I cannot rightly comprehend the ignorance of history that would engender such an utterance. I do not think that this statement is sufficiently genuine to require refutation. Reflection would be more appropriate: perhaps this should be sought in the replacement of the word “children” with any subjugated group, from “women” to “black people” to “Sicilians” to “Irish” to “<any First Nations people> to… —- People deserve the support of their families and communities in their self-actualization, and while of course that looks different for children, if you’re the kind of person that doesn’t look at kids as people then I wouldn’t be surprised to find you’re the kind of parent that finds themselves cut out of the lives of their kids as soon as they’re able.
- vel0city 3y ago
  I'm not saying you shouldn't support people in their self-actualization, but the argument that they should be highly autonomous is absurd. We don't let kids drive for a reason, right? We assume they shouldn't be able to buy alcohol or cigarettes right? Or do you disagree with these ideas? After all you're equating not letting kids buy cigarettes as the subjugation of black people in the US. Sure, I give my kid some autonomy. I let him choose what he wants for breakfast in the morning, for example. But the deck was stacked against him. If he had actual autonomy the pantry would be nothing but candy and cookies. But I've already decided, and removed that autonomic choices from him. I guess I'm a bad parent for not letting him have free reign at the grocery store, letting him fully choose what he'll have every meal. > perhaps this should be sought in the replacement of the word “children” with any subjugated group, from “women” to “black people” to “Sicilians” to “Irish” to “<any First Nations people> to… Ok let me try your logic. Children should not be allowed to work. Women should not be allowed to work. Oof, not good. Well I guess child labor is back. I could go on and on. Maybe this rule doesn't make nearly as much sense as you think it does. > I cannot rightly comprehend the ignorance of history that would engender such an utterance. Yeah, I can't comprehend you suggesting the above logic as the right way to determine if a child should have autonomy or not.

triffil 3y ago

For girls claiming to be boys or boys saying that they're girls, it's a case of them telling someone who they aren't.