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None of this says "we shouldn't eliminate unsafe rules" which is exactly what right on red is. Right on red leads to drivers "stopping" in the sidewalk (or Cal

None of this says "we shouldn't eliminate unsafe rules" which is exactly what right on red is. Right on red leads to drivers "stopping" in the sidewalk (or California stopping), failing to check to their right due to hyper focus on finding an opening in opposite traffic, and leads to less safe opportunities where pedestrians know they can cross. Jaywalking and similar is particularly due to this. What is the benefit of walking all the way to the crosswalk if you are expected to avoid all collisions whether you are there or elsewhere? To make it worse intersections have four ways cars come from at least roads otherwise only have two.

elmerfud 3y ago
It's not that the rules are unsafe it's that bad drivers are doing bad behavior that is unsafe. Everything that the article cites as the problem with right turn on red has nothing at all to do with the law it has to do with bad drivers even in your examples it's about drivers who are bad and not paying attention to their surroundings. This is my point changing the rule is a short-term solution that does nothing to address the long-term problem of making people better drivers.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  I hear this argument a lot, that we just need to improve bad, selfish or distracted people, not make things safer in general. Maybe I'm cynical, but they will always exist, and we are also them sometimes too. Speaking for myself as a UK resident, we do not have this turn on a red light rule, and I feel much safer knowing that when a light is red, traffic almost always isn't coming at me.
- Guvante 3y ago
  If you need the throughput gains of right on red 9 times out of 10 you have a dedicated arrow that avoids turning on when pedestrians can cross. There is no meaningful impact on delay when you have to wait for the green. People are just impatient. You are arguing that good drivers don't get into accidents which is fundamentally flawed reasoning. We could remove all signage if everyone was good drivers, in fact some places with low traffic have and reduced accidents due to everyone focusing on others instead of signage.

elmerfud 3y ago

It's not that the rules are unsafe it's that bad drivers are doing bad behavior that is unsafe. Everything that the article cites as the problem with right turn on red has nothing at all to do with the law it has to do with bad drivers even in your examples it's about drivers who are bad and not paying attention to their surroundings. This is my point changing the rule is a short-term solution that does nothing to address the long-term problem of making people better drivers.

MattPalmer1086 3y ago
I hear this argument a lot, that we just need to improve bad, selfish or distracted people, not make things safer in general. Maybe I'm cynical, but they will always exist, and we are also them sometimes too. Speaking for myself as a UK resident, we do not have this turn on a red light rule, and I feel much safer knowing that when a light is red, traffic almost always isn't coming at me.
Guvante 3y ago
If you need the throughput gains of right on red 9 times out of 10 you have a dedicated arrow that avoids turning on when pedestrians can cross. There is no meaningful impact on delay when you have to wait for the green. People are just impatient. You are arguing that good drivers don't get into accidents which is fundamentally flawed reasoning. We could remove all signage if everyone was good drivers, in fact some places with low traffic have and reduced accidents due to everyone focusing on others instead of signage.