5 ms·

They don't have the technology or the expertise to produce high quality, high performance chips. It's a moot point whether or not they have access to the specs

by yarg 3y ago

They don't have the technology or the expertise to produce high quality, high performance chips. It's a moot point whether or not they have access to the specs, and the only reason to think otherwise is buying into chinese propaganda. Like this blatant bullshit: https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3236924/huaweis-chip-breakthrough-china-has-won-battle-if-not-war https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3236924/huaweis...

skullone 3y ago
Saying "someone doesn't have the technology or expertise" is a point in time statement only true that moment. Progress marches ever forward, and China has quite a few exceptional engineers and scientists (and money) to pursue their objectives.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > China has quite a few exceptional engineers and scientists (and money) to pursue their objectives They could, if they played the long game: "... the only way that China is going to break through the 5nm barrier is by going back not just a few years but a few decades: Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (SMEE), China’s answer to ASML, is building fully home-grown lithography machines using krypton fluoride lasers (Krf); this is previous generation DUV — first introduced around the turn of the century — using wavelengths of 248nm (current DUV processes use argon fluoride lasers (Arf) to achieve 193nm wavelengths). What SMEE specifically and China broadly needs to do is move down the learning curve for lithography. SMEE needs to learn how to use Arf, then immersion, and then EUV. It doesn’t need to take 20 years, either: while ASML needed to invent everything, SMEE has the luxury of already knowing what is possible; the same thing applies to every other part of the semiconductor value chain. This, then, gets at why this PR cycle could be bad for China: the Mate 60 is a short-term propaganda victory that threatens to distract leaders who don’t understand semiconductors from facing up to and fully investing in the long road to semiconductor independence; it’s harder to accept that it might take 15 years when you have 7nm capability in hand right now." https://stratechery.com/2023/the-huawei-mate-60-pro-7nm-background-implications-and-reactions/ https://stratechery.com/2023/the-huawei-mate-60-pro-7nm-back... Unfortunately, Xi is a dictator. Dictators don't have the luxury of playing long games.
  - _factor 3y ago
    Well now that you’ve told them, they’re retooling. The Grand Emperor thanks you.
- astrange 3y ago
  That's not enough to recreate EUV lithography, which is probably the most complex process in the world.
  - snvzz 3y ago
    Yet recreating it today is going to be much easier than creating it for the first time was n years ago. And China doesn't have to start from scratch; It has the resources to leverage insiders, spy and steal blueprints. And is not afraid of using them.
    - astrange 3y ago
      I actually do think it would be harder to recreate it, because you have to remake the whole supply chain, and it's several layers deep of sole suppliers that did already exist when it was originally developed.
RetroTechie 3y ago
> Like this blatant bullshit: Which part(s) of linked article would you consider inaccurate?

by yarg 3y ago

skullone 3y ago

Saying "someone doesn't have the technology or expertise" is a point in time statement only true that moment. Progress marches ever forward, and China has quite a few exceptional engineers and scientists (and money) to pursue their objectives.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> China has quite a few exceptional engineers and scientists (and money) to pursue their objectives They could, if they played the long game: "... the only way that China is going to break through the 5nm barrier is by going back not just a few years but a few decades: Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (SMEE), China’s answer to ASML, is building fully home-grown lithography machines using krypton fluoride lasers (Krf); this is previous generation DUV — first introduced around the turn of the century — using wavelengths of 248nm (current DUV processes use argon fluoride lasers (Arf) to achieve 193nm wavelengths). What SMEE specifically and China broadly needs to do is move down the learning curve for lithography. SMEE needs to learn how to use Arf, then immersion, and then EUV. It doesn’t need to take 20 years, either: while ASML needed to invent everything, SMEE has the luxury of already knowing what is possible; the same thing applies to every other part of the semiconductor value chain. This, then, gets at why this PR cycle could be bad for China: the Mate 60 is a short-term propaganda victory that threatens to distract leaders who don’t understand semiconductors from facing up to and fully investing in the long road to semiconductor independence; it’s harder to accept that it might take 15 years when you have 7nm capability in hand right now." https://stratechery.com/2023/the-huawei-mate-60-pro-7nm-background-implications-and-reactions/ https://stratechery.com/2023/the-huawei-mate-60-pro-7nm-back... Unfortunately, Xi is a dictator. Dictators don't have the luxury of playing long games.
- _factor 3y ago
  Well now that you’ve told them, they’re retooling. The Grand Emperor thanks you.
astrange 3y ago
That's not enough to recreate EUV lithography, which is probably the most complex process in the world.
- snvzz 3y ago
  Yet recreating it today is going to be much easier than creating it for the first time was n years ago. And China doesn't have to start from scratch; It has the resources to leverage insiders, spy and steal blueprints. And is not afraid of using them.
  - astrange 3y ago
    I actually do think it would be harder to recreate it, because you have to remake the whole supply chain, and it's several layers deep of sole suppliers that did already exist when it was originally developed.

RetroTechie 3y ago

> Like this blatant bullshit: Which part(s) of linked article would you consider inaccurate?