5 ms·

I was living in downtown Toronto (one street south of Bloor St, corner with Church St) for 4 years, in that time my rent went from 1800, to 1900, to my landlord

I was living in downtown Toronto (one street south of Bloor St, corner with Church St) for 4 years, in that time my rent went from 1800, to 1900, to my landlord threatening to move her son into the unit just to evict me unless I accepted 2500, for the same unit. A small 1bdrm without a balcony, in a building from the 70s. I was making a pretty normal tech worker salary, and struggling on 2500/m. (90k CAD in early 2020) Looking around there were only similar or more expensive options. Many of them were "ready to move in". (Aka, vacant) The pandemic barely put a dent in those prices. I moved to Montréal, currently have a 2bdrm so I can have a home office, on the ground floor of a triplex with a little sunken balcony, in the gay village, for 1500/m. I don't even know why I'd live in Toronto, it's just become a bad deal now. Doesn't matter who you are. If you think of rent and cost of living as the "subscription" to a city, there's no way you're getting that sort of value out of it.

wnolens 3y ago
> I don't even know why I'd live in Toronto, it's just become a bad deal now. Doesn't matter who you are. For a lot of Canadians/Torontonians (everyone I know), family and friend bonds keep them there. Canada is not an easy country to hop around. The next metropolitan city over is an expensive flight, and heaven forbid one of those sides includes Pearson Airport.. Canadians are culturally less flighty than Americans in my experience. And the options to move to are quite limited (again, in comparison to the USA) Source: I've lived 2/3 my life in Canada, 1/3 in the US.
betaby 3y ago
While you are right, said 2bdrm were costing 1100-1200 per month in 2019 in Montreal. So prices are catching up in Montreal as well. Surely it's not THAT bad yet, but also keep in mind that typical after tax income in QC is probably 30% lower than in ON.
mtriassi 3y ago
As a fellow Montreal-er I agree with you in principle. Our city is beautifully diverse, and it's decently lively. Many of my peers agree that living in Toronto is infeasible, economically, and culturally. That said, I've found that living in Montreal is far from ideal. A big issue is that Montreal's salaries are, as other commenter have said, upwards of 30% lower here. With rising rent and real estate costs, people are living outside their means. More than that, though, companies outside of Montreal are loathe to hire Montrealers remotely as well. It's not just because of the decline of remote friendly workplaces, but also the language laws in Quebec. Any legal department worth their weight will look at Quebec's requirements for companies to serve Quebec employees in French, and promptly conclude hiring there isn't worth it. It really seems like no matter where you end up in Canada the cards are stacked against you. Vancouver is just as expensive as Toronto, and Montreal has all the aforementioned issues. At this point I'm considering running off to Europe, but I know that has its own host of issues as well. I might just be falling victim to analysis paralysis, but I definitely feel stuck.
- graypegg 3y ago
  Ahhh yep! I had to deal with that while looking for another job a few months ago. I had it in mind that remote work meant I could work anywhere. Not here! You really are locked into Québec once Revenu Québec is handling your taxes, got dropped for being a Qc resident multiple times. I’ve thought about Europe as well, I’ll need to reevaluate in a few years to see if that’s still a positive move for me. The French expats I work with they have their own complaints and reasons for crossing the Atlantic.
Gunnerhead 3y ago
The first half convinced me I wrote this myself while sleep walking or something. In fact, I lived one block South of Bloor/Church on Charles St… Wow! However I moved to the US for the much higher salaries.
- graypegg 3y ago
  Hah! Sorry I just saw this now, that's so funny, charles st E., small world! I actually loved that area, it's a shame I couldn't afford it anymore. I miss the late-night runs to Rabba on the other corner.

wnolens 3y ago

> I don't even know why I'd live in Toronto, it's just become a bad deal now. Doesn't matter who you are. For a lot of Canadians/Torontonians (everyone I know), family and friend bonds keep them there. Canada is not an easy country to hop around. The next metropolitan city over is an expensive flight, and heaven forbid one of those sides includes Pearson Airport.. Canadians are culturally less flighty than Americans in my experience. And the options to move to are quite limited (again, in comparison to the USA) Source: I've lived 2/3 my life in Canada, 1/3 in the US.

betaby 3y ago

While you are right, said 2bdrm were costing 1100-1200 per month in 2019 in Montreal. So prices are catching up in Montreal as well. Surely it's not THAT bad yet, but also keep in mind that typical after tax income in QC is probably 30% lower than in ON.

mtriassi 3y ago

As a fellow Montreal-er I agree with you in principle. Our city is beautifully diverse, and it's decently lively. Many of my peers agree that living in Toronto is infeasible, economically, and culturally. That said, I've found that living in Montreal is far from ideal. A big issue is that Montreal's salaries are, as other commenter have said, upwards of 30% lower here. With rising rent and real estate costs, people are living outside their means. More than that, though, companies outside of Montreal are loathe to hire Montrealers remotely as well. It's not just because of the decline of remote friendly workplaces, but also the language laws in Quebec. Any legal department worth their weight will look at Quebec's requirements for companies to serve Quebec employees in French, and promptly conclude hiring there isn't worth it. It really seems like no matter where you end up in Canada the cards are stacked against you. Vancouver is just as expensive as Toronto, and Montreal has all the aforementioned issues. At this point I'm considering running off to Europe, but I know that has its own host of issues as well. I might just be falling victim to analysis paralysis, but I definitely feel stuck.

graypegg 3y ago
Ahhh yep! I had to deal with that while looking for another job a few months ago. I had it in mind that remote work meant I could work anywhere. Not here! You really are locked into Québec once Revenu Québec is handling your taxes, got dropped for being a Qc resident multiple times. I’ve thought about Europe as well, I’ll need to reevaluate in a few years to see if that’s still a positive move for me. The French expats I work with they have their own complaints and reasons for crossing the Atlantic.

Gunnerhead 3y ago

The first half convinced me I wrote this myself while sleep walking or something. In fact, I lived one block South of Bloor/Church on Charles St… Wow! However I moved to the US for the much higher salaries.

graypegg 3y ago
Hah! Sorry I just saw this now, that's so funny, charles st E., small world! I actually loved that area, it's a shame I couldn't afford it anymore. I miss the late-night runs to Rabba on the other corner.