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Last time I saw a poll of blind CS/engineering students across NA, the wide majority preferred JAWS as a screen reader. That implies Windows.

natch 3y ago
Implies Windows but without information about why Windows was chosen. Sometimes people have to use whatever computer is available. So I take the question more as: given whatever computer platform you are stuck on, what screen reader do you prefer? Feel free to share the poll though, maybe it will clarify.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  N=1, but the only blind engineer I've worked with preferred Windows, I think for JAWS. The company was a little behind the curve on hardware, but was fairly progressive in a lot of ways, and made accommodations without question, so I know he could have gotten a Mac if he'd wanted one. He even gave a demo to the team at one point of what it was like to navigate editors, screens and browsers as a blind person, starting with the screen reader at a normal speed and ramping it up to what he was accustomed to. I'm a little sad I didn't get to work with him directly outside of a single time he helped me test some custom UI elements, so I don't know much more about his take on voiceover versus jaws, but this was also over a decade ago. I'm sure things have changed more than a little since then.
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
JAWS is very well-known, and well-supported. Web sites are often tested against it. There’s something to be said about having a well-known system, as it cultivates a great deal of “tribal knowledge,” and that can be invaluable. That said, I think that we train ourselves on whatever platform we use. Both Windows and Mac have fairly comprehensive support for Accessibility. I think Apple is newer to the game, but the granularity of the options in the latest OSes is pretty crazy. Not just for blind folks; but for all kinds of disabilities. I’m confident that Apple takes accessibility very seriously. I like to leverage accessibility and localization in my programming.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  ＞ I'm confident that Apple takes accessibility very seriously I think Apple gets too much of a pass for being serious and commited, where other players have actual results. On mild level accessibility, the part that surprised me the most was keyboard mapping. While macos got caps lock/esc/ctl remapping as touted out improvement, there is no blessed way to remap the rest of the keys. That means third party deamons like Karabiner are the only straight option, and since it stopped being a kernel extension it's also out of the critical loops and will lag under load. In the worst moment I see keystrokes getting processed with enough lag to miss the combined triggers or go to different applications. Windows has more options out of the box (e.g. 106 key layouts IME languages etc.), Powertoys is blessed and efficient, and AutoHotKey works well even under stress. I'm still hoping for more improvement on macos land, but I wish there was less talk and more work on Apple's part.
  - eertami 3y ago
    I haven't used OSX in a while, but in the past I created my own keymap using Ukelele. Would this not still be possible?
    - eproxus 3y ago
      I still use Ukulele and a custom Swedish Dvorak keyboard layout without any problems (in fact, the layout I created 10+ years ago still works out of the box, on every release of macOS).
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      Ukele seems to be about character output, and doesn't interfere with the actual physical key behaviors or modifiers (that's what I get from the site and the interface when running it). For instance I need the Left and Right Command keys to each switch on/off the IME when single pressed, and act as Command when combined with other keys. Same way the Fn key doesn't seem to be mappable. Seems to work at the same level as the Powertoys remapper on windows, minus the shortcuts.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
bryanrasmussen 3y ago
not someone who needs to use a screen reader but whenever I've tried them my experience is that JAWS and NVDA are infuriating, the learning curve on VO is much more forgiving and I can get done what I want in short order. JAWS is often used in Universities in the U.S having a lock on the market - perhaps this is why the people polled prefer it?

natch 3y ago

Implies Windows but without information about why Windows was chosen. Sometimes people have to use whatever computer is available. So I take the question more as: given whatever computer platform you are stuck on, what screen reader do you prefer? Feel free to share the poll though, maybe it will clarify.

zdragnar 3y ago
N=1, but the only blind engineer I've worked with preferred Windows, I think for JAWS. The company was a little behind the curve on hardware, but was fairly progressive in a lot of ways, and made accommodations without question, so I know he could have gotten a Mac if he'd wanted one. He even gave a demo to the team at one point of what it was like to navigate editors, screens and browsers as a blind person, starting with the screen reader at a normal speed and ramping it up to what he was accustomed to. I'm a little sad I didn't get to work with him directly outside of a single time he helped me test some custom UI elements, so I don't know much more about his take on voiceover versus jaws, but this was also over a decade ago. I'm sure things have changed more than a little since then.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

JAWS is very well-known, and well-supported. Web sites are often tested against it. There’s something to be said about having a well-known system, as it cultivates a great deal of “tribal knowledge,” and that can be invaluable. That said, I think that we train ourselves on whatever platform we use. Both Windows and Mac have fairly comprehensive support for Accessibility. I think Apple is newer to the game, but the granularity of the options in the latest OSes is pretty crazy. Not just for blind folks; but for all kinds of disabilities. I’m confident that Apple takes accessibility very seriously. I like to leverage accessibility and localization in my programming.

makeitdouble 3y ago
＞ I'm confident that Apple takes accessibility very seriously I think Apple gets too much of a pass for being serious and commited, where other players have actual results. On mild level accessibility, the part that surprised me the most was keyboard mapping. While macos got caps lock/esc/ctl remapping as touted out improvement, there is no blessed way to remap the rest of the keys. That means third party deamons like Karabiner are the only straight option, and since it stopped being a kernel extension it's also out of the critical loops and will lag under load. In the worst moment I see keystrokes getting processed with enough lag to miss the combined triggers or go to different applications. Windows has more options out of the box (e.g. 106 key layouts IME languages etc.), Powertoys is blessed and efficient, and AutoHotKey works well even under stress. I'm still hoping for more improvement on macos land, but I wish there was less talk and more work on Apple's part.
- eertami 3y ago
  I haven't used OSX in a while, but in the past I created my own keymap using Ukelele. Would this not still be possible?
  - eproxus 3y ago
    I still use Ukulele and a custom Swedish Dvorak keyboard layout without any problems (in fact, the layout I created 10+ years ago still works out of the box, on every release of macOS).
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Ukele seems to be about character output, and doesn't interfere with the actual physical key behaviors or modifiers (that's what I get from the site and the interface when running it). For instance I need the Left and Right Command keys to each switch on/off the IME when single pressed, and act as Command when combined with other keys. Same way the Fn key doesn't seem to be mappable. Seems to work at the same level as the Powertoys remapper on windows, minus the shortcuts.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

not someone who needs to use a screen reader but whenever I've tried them my experience is that JAWS and NVDA are infuriating, the learning curve on VO is much more forgiving and I can get done what I want in short order. JAWS is often used in Universities in the U.S having a lock on the market - perhaps this is why the people polled prefer it?