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Nonsense. People don’t want people driving into their cities and making noise/ taking up a bunch of space with their cars. We have zero problems with people tak

Nonsense. People don’t want people driving into their cities and making noise/ taking up a bunch of space with their cars. We have zero problems with people taking transit in. Suburban residents want to treat the city as both a low density car friendly space and a place filled with culture/concerts/plays/restaurants, not realizing that the two are opposites.

ghaff 3y ago
Except that taking transit in, especially for an evening event, is often not a reasonable option. I'll happily take commuter rail in if I have to go into our urban office for the day but it's utterly unworkable for an evening event given how few trains there are and how long they take. And this is a city (Boston/Cambridge) with relatively good transit options. If driving in for the evening became any more difficult than it is today (which is not trivial) I simply wouldn't come in. So your comment boils down to not wanting people to come into the city for a night activity because they don't have a reasonable alternative to driving in most cases.
- patagurbon 3y ago
  The lack of regional electrified rail even on the Providence line is a blight on the Boston area. It is perfectly feasible to run regional trains every 15 minutes which would solve your problem. Of course we won't get that until the 2050s at best...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > taking transit in, especially for an evening event, is often not a reasonable option If it’s that much of a hassle, for most entertainment one commutes into Manhattan for, you are fine paying the toll on an Uber. People driving themselves in and sensitive to the toll are, by definition, not adding much to the local economy.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I'm basically $200-300 round-trip to get a car to take me into the city. At that point, I'm probably going to make a weekend out of it whether I take commuter rail in or not--and I'm not going to do it very often. We're talking probably a thousand dollars at that point between hotel and transportation and whatever the actual activity is. (And I'm not sure from a driving in perspective what's actually been gained relative to me taking my own car in and parking in a garage which is what I usually do.)
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > basically $200-300 round-trip to get a car to take me into the city The congestion charge will be between $9 and $23. For certain parts of Manhattan. During certain hours. It sounds like your problem is where you live, fundamentally, not the charge. > a thousand dollars at that point between hotel and transportation You do see how, from a resident's perspective, you spending more money less frequently is not a downside? > what's actually been gained relative to me taking my own car in and parking in a garage A reduction in space wasted to parking. Also, congestion: your car adds a car to the road. (You're also a non-professional driver in a dense urban environment.)
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Spooky23 3y ago
        "Certain parts of Manhattan" is south of 66th St. The things that people want to deal with the PITA of living in Manhattan over depend on volume of people. COVID and WTF killed commercial office traffic - now that it's getting dark early take a walk up 3rd Avenue in the late afternoon - the offices are empty. So the residents don't want to deal with commuters, don't want to deal with drivers, etc. Cool. I don't want to hear about bailing people out of their $2M mortgages on 800 ft^2 apartments when the cultural, dining and entertainment that brought them to Manhattan migrates to Brooklyn and Jersey.
        nerdponx 3y ago
- nerdponx 3y ago
  The NY Metro North railroad is so much better than the MBTA Commuter Rail that it's not even in the same category. You absolutely can take it into the city for the evening.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    There's a whole cultural aspect to it as well as the actual physical infrastructure. But it's probably unique in the US in that regard. The MBTA commuter rail is commuter rail. And, outside the occasional other event, no one looks at it differently and it is empty (and probably loses a bunch of money) whenever it runs outside of rush hour.
- JambalayaJim 3y ago
  The money saved from reduced vehicles in the city can and should go into expanded commuter service, I absolutely agree. There is a cultural element to this as well - many suburbanites feel that transit is beneath them.

ghaff 3y ago

Except that taking transit in, especially for an evening event, is often not a reasonable option. I'll happily take commuter rail in if I have to go into our urban office for the day but it's utterly unworkable for an evening event given how few trains there are and how long they take. And this is a city (Boston/Cambridge) with relatively good transit options. If driving in for the evening became any more difficult than it is today (which is not trivial) I simply wouldn't come in. So your comment boils down to not wanting people to come into the city for a night activity because they don't have a reasonable alternative to driving in most cases.

patagurbon 3y ago
The lack of regional electrified rail even on the Providence line is a blight on the Boston area. It is perfectly feasible to run regional trains every 15 minutes which would solve your problem. Of course we won't get that until the 2050s at best...
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> taking transit in, especially for an evening event, is often not a reasonable option If it’s that much of a hassle, for most entertainment one commutes into Manhattan for, you are fine paying the toll on an Uber. People driving themselves in and sensitive to the toll are, by definition, not adding much to the local economy.
- ghaff 3y ago
  I'm basically $200-300 round-trip to get a car to take me into the city. At that point, I'm probably going to make a weekend out of it whether I take commuter rail in or not--and I'm not going to do it very often. We're talking probably a thousand dollars at that point between hotel and transportation and whatever the actual activity is. (And I'm not sure from a driving in perspective what's actually been gained relative to me taking my own car in and parking in a garage which is what I usually do.)
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > basically $200-300 round-trip to get a car to take me into the city The congestion charge will be between $9 and $23. For certain parts of Manhattan. During certain hours. It sounds like your problem is where you live, fundamentally, not the charge. > a thousand dollars at that point between hotel and transportation You do see how, from a resident's perspective, you spending more money less frequently is not a downside? > what's actually been gained relative to me taking my own car in and parking in a garage A reduction in space wasted to parking. Also, congestion: your car adds a car to the road. (You're also a non-professional driver in a dense urban environment.)
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Spooky23 3y ago
      "Certain parts of Manhattan" is south of 66th St. The things that people want to deal with the PITA of living in Manhattan over depend on volume of people. COVID and WTF killed commercial office traffic - now that it's getting dark early take a walk up 3rd Avenue in the late afternoon - the offices are empty. So the residents don't want to deal with commuters, don't want to deal with drivers, etc. Cool. I don't want to hear about bailing people out of their $2M mortgages on 800 ft^2 apartments when the cultural, dining and entertainment that brought them to Manhattan migrates to Brooklyn and Jersey.
      - nerdponx 3y ago
nerdponx 3y ago
The NY Metro North railroad is so much better than the MBTA Commuter Rail that it's not even in the same category. You absolutely can take it into the city for the evening.
- ghaff 3y ago
  There's a whole cultural aspect to it as well as the actual physical infrastructure. But it's probably unique in the US in that regard. The MBTA commuter rail is commuter rail. And, outside the occasional other event, no one looks at it differently and it is empty (and probably loses a bunch of money) whenever it runs outside of rush hour.
JambalayaJim 3y ago
The money saved from reduced vehicles in the city can and should go into expanded commuter service, I absolutely agree. There is a cultural element to this as well - many suburbanites feel that transit is beneath them.