6 ms·

Bezos is like the little brother that has to copy what his older brother does.

by ThrowawayTestr 3y ago

GravityLab 3y ago
Mr. Bezos is a little older than Mr. Musk. :)
Afforess 3y ago
Even if this was true, so what?
- GravityLab 3y ago
  Indeed. Some friendly competition makes the products better for everyone.
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  Parent is most likely an eldest sibling ;)
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Depends - what is better for the rest of us? A competitor to starlink, or Bezos using his absurd wealth to do something completely different and possibly world shaping.
- perihelions 3y ago
  Well, from the fine article, for example: - "It has booked 77 launches – deals that include options for more launches when needed – from that trio of companies to deploy the satellites fast enough to meet regulatory requirements. That massive purchase has come under scrutiny from an Amazon shareholder lawsuit, which alleges the company snubbed SpaceX for valuable satellite launch contracts because of Jeff Bezos' personal rivalry with Elon Musk." Far from irrelevant celebrity gossip, that personal relationship between America's two top oligarchs is a powerful factor shaping America's space industry. Apparently some Amazon investors believe Kuiper would be, and should be, a SpaceX client, if not for Bezos' and Musk's personal rivalry. (I'd go a step further and posit both Kuiper and Blue Origin wouldn't even exist without that factor. Mine's not a fringe view. Kuiper particularly looks like a long shot, because it's directly fighting against SpaceX's biggest strength: large-number launch economics. Of all the ways to try to get a foothold in the new space industry, the Kuiper approach is one of the least logical).
  - abecedarius 3y ago
    If I were starting up a Starlink competitor, even if Musk meant nothing to me personally I'd have quite a bad feeling about strategically relying on SpaceX. It seems like ordinary basic supplier management to use SpaceX competitors instead if you can.
  - kiratp 3y ago
    > Kuiper particularly looks like a long shot, because it's directly fighting against SpaceX's biggest strength: large-number launch economics. Of all the ways to try to get a foothold in the new space industry, the Kuiper approach is one of the least logical). This misses Amazon’s strength - AWS. Launches are a fraction, granted a non-trivial fraction, but still a fraction, of actually running a space-to-ground network. Who’s going to have the best latency to your enterprise infra in AWS DCs? Offer you “free egress to satellite links”? The US military will want multiple providers. List goes on.
  - TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
    Frankly, the rivalry (if there is one) probably plays less a role than you think. Amazon is the one launching these and Bezos no longer runs Amazon. Other posters have already pointed out why Amazon would want this. Since they have the money to spare why not roll their own instead of being at the mercy of another company for what could be crucial infrastructure. As for using SpaceX, the person who owns it operates a rival internet satellite network, it’s a conflict of interest. If Amazon doesn’t support an alternate launch provider, SpaceX will have a monopoly and then they are in trouble.
tracer4201 3y ago
[dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
coderjames 3y ago
Blue Origin was founded in 2000 and SpaceX wasn't founded until 2002 so I think you have that a little backwards. A more accurate comparison would be that Elon is like the little brother who one-ups the older brother at his own game. Also, Bezos isn't the CEO at Amazon anymore and hasn't been since mid 2021, so blaming any Amazon decisions in the last two years on him is just misinformed.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  > Also, Bezos isn't the CEO at Amazon anymore and hasn't been since mid 2021, so blaming any Amazon decisions in the last two years on him is just misinformed. More than 20 years of leadership leaves a mark that doesn't fade so fast as that. Most of Amazon's present management and leadership was hired and advanced during Bezos's tenure.
  - giobox 3y ago
    Right, and he still owns ~12 percent of Amazon's shares regardless of not being CEO anymore - of course he still has some degree of influence, and his strong dislike of Musk and SpaceX isn't exactly a secret. I suspect we will not be seeing Kuiper cargo on a SpaceX rocket ever, costs be damned, if it can be avoided...
    - basementcat 3y ago
      There is currently a shareholder lawsuit concerning Amazon choices of launch providers. There are arguments for and against Amazon paying SpaceX for launch services. For: * SpaceX is very price competitive * SpaceX may be able to launch sooner than other launch providers (Amazon may be able to "outbid" other customers for Falcon payload capacity) * Every Falcon (or Starship) carrying KuiperSats is _not_ carrying Starlink satellites. SpaceX uses Starlink launches as a way to tune and optimize the Falcon launch platform. Launching KuiperSats potentially hurts the SpaceX launch vehicle and Starlink businesses in subtle ways. Against: * Social media trolling * SpaceX does not have a reputation for working well with other companies https://spacenews.com/darpa-satellites-damaged-at-processing-facility-ahead-of-spacex-launch/ https://spacenews.com/darpa-satellites-damaged-at-processing...
philipov 3y ago
That's how competition is supposed to work.
- ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
  Usually competition does something different or does the same thing better.
  - philipov 3y ago
    "does the same thing better" It's that one. You may have your views about which is better, or by which criteria we should evaluate better, but that's just like your opinion, man.
  - rtsil 3y ago
    Or significantly cheaper. And Amazon already proved that it is quite good in copying its rivals and offering a cheaper version.
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      They have also tried things that don't work. Frankly speaking in rockets and sats it incredibly unlikely they are gone be cheaper. The rocket they had to buy alone already makes their whole thing not competitive with Starlink.

Bezos is like the little brother that has to copy what his older brother does.

GravityLab 3y ago

Mr. Bezos is a little older than Mr. Musk. :)

Afforess 3y ago

Even if this was true, so what?

GravityLab 3y ago
Indeed. Some friendly competition makes the products better for everyone.
booleandilemma 3y ago
Parent is most likely an eldest sibling ;)
oh_sigh 3y ago
Depends - what is better for the rest of us? A competitor to starlink, or Bezos using his absurd wealth to do something completely different and possibly world shaping.
perihelions 3y ago
Well, from the fine article, for example: - "It has booked 77 launches – deals that include options for more launches when needed – from that trio of companies to deploy the satellites fast enough to meet regulatory requirements. That massive purchase has come under scrutiny from an Amazon shareholder lawsuit, which alleges the company snubbed SpaceX for valuable satellite launch contracts because of Jeff Bezos' personal rivalry with Elon Musk." Far from irrelevant celebrity gossip, that personal relationship between America's two top oligarchs is a powerful factor shaping America's space industry. Apparently some Amazon investors believe Kuiper would be, and should be, a SpaceX client, if not for Bezos' and Musk's personal rivalry. (I'd go a step further and posit both Kuiper and Blue Origin wouldn't even exist without that factor. Mine's not a fringe view. Kuiper particularly looks like a long shot, because it's directly fighting against SpaceX's biggest strength: large-number launch economics. Of all the ways to try to get a foothold in the new space industry, the Kuiper approach is one of the least logical).
- abecedarius 3y ago
  If I were starting up a Starlink competitor, even if Musk meant nothing to me personally I'd have quite a bad feeling about strategically relying on SpaceX. It seems like ordinary basic supplier management to use SpaceX competitors instead if you can.
- kiratp 3y ago
  > Kuiper particularly looks like a long shot, because it's directly fighting against SpaceX's biggest strength: large-number launch economics. Of all the ways to try to get a foothold in the new space industry, the Kuiper approach is one of the least logical). This misses Amazon’s strength - AWS. Launches are a fraction, granted a non-trivial fraction, but still a fraction, of actually running a space-to-ground network. Who’s going to have the best latency to your enterprise infra in AWS DCs? Offer you “free egress to satellite links”? The US military will want multiple providers. List goes on.
- TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
  Frankly, the rivalry (if there is one) probably plays less a role than you think. Amazon is the one launching these and Bezos no longer runs Amazon. Other posters have already pointed out why Amazon would want this. Since they have the money to spare why not roll their own instead of being at the mercy of another company for what could be crucial infrastructure. As for using SpaceX, the person who owns it operates a rival internet satellite network, it’s a conflict of interest. If Amazon doesn’t support an alternate launch provider, SpaceX will have a monopoly and then they are in trouble.

tracer4201 3y ago

[dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

coderjames 3y ago

Blue Origin was founded in 2000 and SpaceX wasn't founded until 2002 so I think you have that a little backwards. A more accurate comparison would be that Elon is like the little brother who one-ups the older brother at his own game. Also, Bezos isn't the CEO at Amazon anymore and hasn't been since mid 2021, so blaming any Amazon decisions in the last two years on him is just misinformed.

mcpackieh 3y ago
> Also, Bezos isn't the CEO at Amazon anymore and hasn't been since mid 2021, so blaming any Amazon decisions in the last two years on him is just misinformed. More than 20 years of leadership leaves a mark that doesn't fade so fast as that. Most of Amazon's present management and leadership was hired and advanced during Bezos's tenure.
- giobox 3y ago
  Right, and he still owns ~12 percent of Amazon's shares regardless of not being CEO anymore - of course he still has some degree of influence, and his strong dislike of Musk and SpaceX isn't exactly a secret. I suspect we will not be seeing Kuiper cargo on a SpaceX rocket ever, costs be damned, if it can be avoided...
  - basementcat 3y ago
    There is currently a shareholder lawsuit concerning Amazon choices of launch providers. There are arguments for and against Amazon paying SpaceX for launch services. For: * SpaceX is very price competitive * SpaceX may be able to launch sooner than other launch providers (Amazon may be able to "outbid" other customers for Falcon payload capacity) * Every Falcon (or Starship) carrying KuiperSats is _not_ carrying Starlink satellites. SpaceX uses Starlink launches as a way to tune and optimize the Falcon launch platform. Launching KuiperSats potentially hurts the SpaceX launch vehicle and Starlink businesses in subtle ways. Against: * Social media trolling * SpaceX does not have a reputation for working well with other companies https://spacenews.com/darpa-satellites-damaged-at-processing-facility-ahead-of-spacex-launch/ https://spacenews.com/darpa-satellites-damaged-at-processing...

philipov 3y ago

That's how competition is supposed to work.

ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
Usually competition does something different or does the same thing better.
- philipov 3y ago
  "does the same thing better" It's that one. You may have your views about which is better, or by which criteria we should evaluate better, but that's just like your opinion, man.
- rtsil 3y ago
  Or significantly cheaper. And Amazon already proved that it is quite good in copying its rivals and offering a cheaper version.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    They have also tried things that don't work. Frankly speaking in rockets and sats it incredibly unlikely they are gone be cheaper. The rocket they had to buy alone already makes their whole thing not competitive with Starlink.