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as if cars are the primary form of transit in NYC. The congestion tolls will make us more reliant on public transit, but that’s exactly the point. We don’t want

as if cars are the primary form of transit in NYC. The congestion tolls will make us more reliant on public transit, but that’s exactly the point. We don’t want to build car-centric infrastructure.

Spooky23 3y ago
It's a city of almost 10 million people with a metro area of 20 million people, and a broader region of 60+ million people depending on how you look at it. The value of NYC in 2023 isn't NYC, there's no industry per se. It's a financial, cultural and administrative center -- a hub. The marginal changes have huge impacts on the region, nation and maybe the world. If 1% of NY metro people need something, that's 200,000 impacted people; more than the entire upstate NY region where I live. The activists living in Manhattan who are wound up about Manhattan being congested, etc are living in a bubble. Their world depends on the outsiders. The actual dollar value of toll isn't relevant. The perception is. If there's a thing in Manhattan that isn't a commute to a job, you need to do the calculus if the pain in the ass of getting to Manhattan is worth it. If you're not young or particularly mobile, it's a hard no. Why does it matter? Huge industries in NYC depend on NYC being NYC. If you're fighting cancer, are you going to go to MSK, NYU or Cornell in Manhattan? There's no hotels of note north of 66th St, so on top of everything else, you're facing more hassle and expense. How does that impact the tens of thousands of people working at these places long term?
- kouru225 3y ago
  I don’t see anything in your comment that makes me think congestion toll is a bad idea. NYC infrastructure can’t maintain increased traffic and we shouldn’t build out to accommodate it. If you need to get into manhattan, just use public transportation. The perception, as far as I can tell, comes from a bunch of car brains who think they should be able to drive wherever they want and be 100% accommodated without taking one second to think about the consequences of car-centric infrastructure. Spending our time and energy accommodating them is a net negative to our community. Edit: it seems like you’re doing your calculations based on the idea that increased access via car leads to increased sales. The data actually shows the opposite: The more walkable the area is, the more sales at storefronts. Locations that shutdown lanes of traffic to increase walkability or increase bike traffic see a massive jump in revenue.

Spooky23 3y ago

It's a city of almost 10 million people with a metro area of 20 million people, and a broader region of 60+ million people depending on how you look at it. The value of NYC in 2023 isn't NYC, there's no industry per se. It's a financial, cultural and administrative center -- a hub. The marginal changes have huge impacts on the region, nation and maybe the world. If 1% of NY metro people need something, that's 200,000 impacted people; more than the entire upstate NY region where I live. The activists living in Manhattan who are wound up about Manhattan being congested, etc are living in a bubble. Their world depends on the outsiders. The actual dollar value of toll isn't relevant. The perception is. If there's a thing in Manhattan that isn't a commute to a job, you need to do the calculus if the pain in the ass of getting to Manhattan is worth it. If you're not young or particularly mobile, it's a hard no. Why does it matter? Huge industries in NYC depend on NYC being NYC. If you're fighting cancer, are you going to go to MSK, NYU or Cornell in Manhattan? There's no hotels of note north of 66th St, so on top of everything else, you're facing more hassle and expense. How does that impact the tens of thousands of people working at these places long term?

kouru225 3y ago
I don’t see anything in your comment that makes me think congestion toll is a bad idea. NYC infrastructure can’t maintain increased traffic and we shouldn’t build out to accommodate it. If you need to get into manhattan, just use public transportation. The perception, as far as I can tell, comes from a bunch of car brains who think they should be able to drive wherever they want and be 100% accommodated without taking one second to think about the consequences of car-centric infrastructure. Spending our time and energy accommodating them is a net negative to our community. Edit: it seems like you’re doing your calculations based on the idea that increased access via car leads to increased sales. The data actually shows the opposite: The more walkable the area is, the more sales at storefronts. Locations that shutdown lanes of traffic to increase walkability or increase bike traffic see a massive jump in revenue.