4 ms·

I hate USB-C. What a mess. What good is a universal port if it's not actually universal? I would actually prefer different shapes, because then you could be pr

I hate USB-C. What a mess. What good is a universal port if it's not actually universal? I would actually prefer different shapes, because then you could be pretty confident that if everything fit it was going to work. Like how USB used to be.

simondotau 3y ago
> What a mess. It’s such a mess that the EU took one look at it and said “let’s make that a universal standard and force it upon everyone!” Modern USB truly is the government bureaucracy of standards.
- Guvante 3y ago
  EU has been trying to work with Apple on this almost since the lighting cable was released. I believe there were discussions about potentially standardizing on Lighting if Apple relinquished it's tight control over the technology but they were not interested in that path. The EU decided that Apple cannot dictate what cables are used to charge their phones to the degree of at one point charging manufacturers $4 per cable (to be fair it seems like Apple was providing the hardware so it wasn't a pure licensing charge).
  - simondotau 3y ago
    Huh? I didn't say anything about Apple. The parent post didn't say say anything about Apple. The grandparent didn't say anything about Apple. The great grandparent didn't say anything about Apple. The world doesn't revolve around Apple. My criticism of the EU policy has nothing to do with the port on an iPhone. If you're curious, my main objection to the EU is that I don't think USB-C is a good standard and I don't like the prospect of the whole industry stuck with USB-C longer than appropriate because there's no incentive to experiment and possibly come up with something dramatically better.
Guvante 3y ago
Is it really worse now than it was before? Having a plug on say a laptop that can be a charger, a HID, a drive, a monitor, or all of the above with a docking station is vastly superior to the old day IMHO. Unfortunately the cable to do that isn't cheap and is massively overkill for say a phone charger. Thus cable compatibility becomes a thing but looking at HDMI cable compatibility is always a thing. I think the problem is what used to be complaints about niche connectors are complaints about USB-C and it feels different and more impactful even if it isn't necessarily. After all I know back in the Mini-USB days you had manufacturers skipping the data pins to save some copper leading to frustration when you couldn't transfer files.
- yftsui 3y ago
  It is really worse. I have ton of USB-C cables doesn’t transfer data from flash lights, a lot of USB 2.0 speed cables with USB-C connector, then USB 3.0 cables rated at 5G/10Gbps without an easy way to know the difference, then Thunderbolt 3 / 4 cables one each. Besides Thunderbolt cables, there is not a standard nor universal way to identity them. I had to test each cable by plug in an SSD then speed test the SSD. Flash back 15 years, a cable with MicroUSB either transfer data, or not. The difference between high speed / super speed only lives in the device.
  - doubled112 3y ago
    Don't forget to mention displays in this discussion. A USB-C docking station will plug into many of my laptops, but only two will display anything on the screen. Being able to pick and choose features like that is not user friendly. It will do everything except when they didn't feel like implementing it is not a good standard.
  - p1mrx 3y ago
    > I had to test each cable by plug in an SSD then speed test the SSD. That's actually not a bad solution. The speed of a cable doesn't matter unless you have a device that needs to be fast.
  - Guvante 3y ago
BlueTemplar 3y ago
Seems to be finally coalescing around something sane with USB4 ? (USB3 having been a "beta" version...)
- nullfield 3y ago
  Isn’t USB 4 largely just TB3 without Intel certification and branding requirements?
  - BlueTemplar 3y ago
    I don't know, but isn't it likely to become for USB-C what USB 2 has become for USB-A after (I would guess?) the wild west of the USB 1 days ?
mschuster91 3y ago
> I would actually prefer different shapes, because then you could be pretty confident that if everything fit it was going to work. The baseline profiles for power delivery (i.e. anything up to 20V@5A) have been all but done for two, three years now - you can readily buy combinations of PD and MUX chipsets that handle everything you can throw at them, and Anker has high-quality chargers to supply the juice. The thing where USB-C still has issues is alternate modes. USBx usually works on all ports of a laptop or PC and virtually all cables, but anything involving TB, display, debug or audio is a hit-and-miss given how incredibly difficult it is to route all these high-frequency signals and properly mux them.
kylebenzle 3y ago
Usbc is the greatest thing to happen to humanity the last 20 years. The simple fact that we can finally share charging cables across phones is a god send, not having a single cable for all phones was the stupidest thing people had ever done.
- Macha 3y ago
  Micro-USB was previously the phone charging standard for everyone but iPhones for a good ten year run (and even then EU sold iPhones shipped with a micro-USB to lightning converter in the box).

simondotau 3y ago

> What a mess. It’s such a mess that the EU took one look at it and said “let’s make that a universal standard and force it upon everyone!” Modern USB truly is the government bureaucracy of standards.

Guvante 3y ago
EU has been trying to work with Apple on this almost since the lighting cable was released. I believe there were discussions about potentially standardizing on Lighting if Apple relinquished it's tight control over the technology but they were not interested in that path. The EU decided that Apple cannot dictate what cables are used to charge their phones to the degree of at one point charging manufacturers $4 per cable (to be fair it seems like Apple was providing the hardware so it wasn't a pure licensing charge).
- simondotau 3y ago
  Huh? I didn't say anything about Apple. The parent post didn't say say anything about Apple. The grandparent didn't say anything about Apple. The great grandparent didn't say anything about Apple. The world doesn't revolve around Apple. My criticism of the EU policy has nothing to do with the port on an iPhone. If you're curious, my main objection to the EU is that I don't think USB-C is a good standard and I don't like the prospect of the whole industry stuck with USB-C longer than appropriate because there's no incentive to experiment and possibly come up with something dramatically better.

Guvante 3y ago

Is it really worse now than it was before? Having a plug on say a laptop that can be a charger, a HID, a drive, a monitor, or all of the above with a docking station is vastly superior to the old day IMHO. Unfortunately the cable to do that isn't cheap and is massively overkill for say a phone charger. Thus cable compatibility becomes a thing but looking at HDMI cable compatibility is always a thing. I think the problem is what used to be complaints about niche connectors are complaints about USB-C and it feels different and more impactful even if it isn't necessarily. After all I know back in the Mini-USB days you had manufacturers skipping the data pins to save some copper leading to frustration when you couldn't transfer files.

yftsui 3y ago
It is really worse. I have ton of USB-C cables doesn’t transfer data from flash lights, a lot of USB 2.0 speed cables with USB-C connector, then USB 3.0 cables rated at 5G/10Gbps without an easy way to know the difference, then Thunderbolt 3 / 4 cables one each. Besides Thunderbolt cables, there is not a standard nor universal way to identity them. I had to test each cable by plug in an SSD then speed test the SSD. Flash back 15 years, a cable with MicroUSB either transfer data, or not. The difference between high speed / super speed only lives in the device.
- doubled112 3y ago
  Don't forget to mention displays in this discussion. A USB-C docking station will plug into many of my laptops, but only two will display anything on the screen. Being able to pick and choose features like that is not user friendly. It will do everything except when they didn't feel like implementing it is not a good standard.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  > I had to test each cable by plug in an SSD then speed test the SSD. That's actually not a bad solution. The speed of a cable doesn't matter unless you have a device that needs to be fast.
- Guvante 3y ago

BlueTemplar 3y ago

Seems to be finally coalescing around something sane with USB4 ? (USB3 having been a "beta" version...)

nullfield 3y ago
Isn’t USB 4 largely just TB3 without Intel certification and branding requirements?
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  I don't know, but isn't it likely to become for USB-C what USB 2 has become for USB-A after (I would guess?) the wild west of the USB 1 days ?

mschuster91 3y ago

> I would actually prefer different shapes, because then you could be pretty confident that if everything fit it was going to work. The baseline profiles for power delivery (i.e. anything up to 20V@5A) have been all but done for two, three years now - you can readily buy combinations of PD and MUX chipsets that handle everything you can throw at them, and Anker has high-quality chargers to supply the juice. The thing where USB-C still has issues is alternate modes. USBx usually works on all ports of a laptop or PC and virtually all cables, but anything involving TB, display, debug or audio is a hit-and-miss given how incredibly difficult it is to route all these high-frequency signals and properly mux them.

kylebenzle 3y ago

Usbc is the greatest thing to happen to humanity the last 20 years. The simple fact that we can finally share charging cables across phones is a god send, not having a single cable for all phones was the stupidest thing people had ever done.

Macha 3y ago
Micro-USB was previously the phone charging standard for everyone but iPhones for a good ten year run (and even then EU sold iPhones shipped with a micro-USB to lightning converter in the box).