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Interesting, but also interesting that he chose to take control of his own health rather than recognizing he didn't do the research of modern medicine that woul

Interesting, but also interesting that he chose to take control of his own health rather than recognizing he didn't do the research of modern medicine that would save his life. Instead he did his own research and died from it. *Edit* I'm wrong. Jobs did in fact get his cancer treated and this meme I fell for is misinformation. [1]. It really seems like jobs did everything in his power to control the cancer and wasn't just winging things like I previously thought. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/steve-jobs-pancreatic-cancer-timeline/story?id=14681812 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/s...

freedomben 3y ago
Jobs famously lived in a "reality distortion field" as Walter Isaacson calls it. His entire life he adopted extreme diets (like only eating apples or other fruit, he called it being a "fruitarian") and would adamantly deny things from others (even when there were many reports) that contradicted his belief. In his 20s he had famously bad hygiene, going weeks without showers and being so smelly that people couldn't stand it. He refused to wear shoes and his feet would be absolutely filthy and black with dirt and grime, and he would even put them up on people's desks. He would adamantly deny that he smelled bad or needed a shower saying (and believing) things like, "I don't need to shower because my fruitarian diet makes it so I don't stink." Everyone else was wrong, not him[1][2]. Given that, it's not surprising to me at all that he thought he could treat his own cancer with just diet, and assumed doctors were just wrong. [1]: "Steve Jobs" by Walter Isaacson [1]: Classic Simpsons reference: https://i.imgflip.com/3pqr2e.jpg https://i.imgflip.com/3pqr2e.jpg
viktorcode 3y ago
> rather than recognizing he didn't do the research of modern medicine that would save his life. Back when Jobs got cancer and the media were discussing it I clearly remember reading that with that type there's higher than 90% death rate.
- cogman10 3y ago
  IIRC, jobs found the cancer at it's earliest stage, which has an 80% 5 year survival rate if treated. [1] Pancreatic cancer tends to move fast and survival plummets as it advances. *Edit* looks like jobs did in fact undergo treatment for his cancer back in 2004. He didn't go though chemo, but IDK if that'd make the difference. [2]. I need to not be so critical of him, it's likely he did actually listen to medical advice and I simply fell for a common incorrect Internet meme. [1] https://pancan.org/facing-pancreatic-cancer/about-pancreatic-cancer/survival-rate/ https://pancan.org/facing-pancreatic-cancer/about-pancreatic... [2] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/steve-jobs-pancreatic-cancer-timeline/story?id=14681812 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/s...
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    Idk what about that abcnews link makes you think you fell for misinformation. Jobs getting a surgery close to the discovery of the cancer doesn't contradict him not following doctors' advice to use chemotherapy. He spent 7 years attempting to just eat fruit to fight off a mostly curable cancer, and it didn't work.
    - cogman10 3y ago
      I was under the impression that Jobs did nothing for his cancer. He did, in fact, have it surgically removed. He further underwent several surgeries for various problems after the pancreatic cancer diagnosis. It's not clear to me that a doctor wouldn't have advised against chemo for the pancreas. Chemo doesn't always get recommended for cancer treatments (especially now-a-days) and it's not shocking to me that a doctor would potentially recommend against it in his case (super early detection with apparently successful surgery). A little bit like how if you get skin cancer the first line of defense is to simply lop the thing off. You almost never get chemo with skin cancer unless it has progressed. The current 5 year survival rate for pancreatic cancer detected early is 80%. So it's definitely an aggressive cancer even in the best practical scenarios.
TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
Guess that's why he needed those reminders to not get "carried away". That there is a lot he doesn't know. Unfortunately, his cancer treatment was one of those times he did not remember.
BonoboIO 3y ago
He got all the money in the world, cheated (legally) the transplantation list, but was incapable to choose a therapy with a good chance to survive. Even clever people, can be stupid. https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/live-death-math-and-efficiency-the-quest-to-solve-us-organ-transplants-woes/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/live-death-math-and-...

freedomben 3y ago

Jobs famously lived in a "reality distortion field" as Walter Isaacson calls it. His entire life he adopted extreme diets (like only eating apples or other fruit, he called it being a "fruitarian") and would adamantly deny things from others (even when there were many reports) that contradicted his belief. In his 20s he had famously bad hygiene, going weeks without showers and being so smelly that people couldn't stand it. He refused to wear shoes and his feet would be absolutely filthy and black with dirt and grime, and he would even put them up on people's desks. He would adamantly deny that he smelled bad or needed a shower saying (and believing) things like, "I don't need to shower because my fruitarian diet makes it so I don't stink." Everyone else was wrong, not him[1][2]. Given that, it's not surprising to me at all that he thought he could treat his own cancer with just diet, and assumed doctors were just wrong. [1]: "Steve Jobs" by Walter Isaacson [1]: Classic Simpsons reference: https://i.imgflip.com/3pqr2e.jpg https://i.imgflip.com/3pqr2e.jpg

viktorcode 3y ago

> rather than recognizing he didn't do the research of modern medicine that would save his life. Back when Jobs got cancer and the media were discussing it I clearly remember reading that with that type there's higher than 90% death rate.

cogman10 3y ago
IIRC, jobs found the cancer at it's earliest stage, which has an 80% 5 year survival rate if treated. [1] Pancreatic cancer tends to move fast and survival plummets as it advances. *Edit* looks like jobs did in fact undergo treatment for his cancer back in 2004. He didn't go though chemo, but IDK if that'd make the difference. [2]. I need to not be so critical of him, it's likely he did actually listen to medical advice and I simply fell for a common incorrect Internet meme. [1] https://pancan.org/facing-pancreatic-cancer/about-pancreatic-cancer/survival-rate/ https://pancan.org/facing-pancreatic-cancer/about-pancreatic... [2] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/steve-jobs-pancreatic-cancer-timeline/story?id=14681812 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/s...
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  Idk what about that abcnews link makes you think you fell for misinformation. Jobs getting a surgery close to the discovery of the cancer doesn't contradict him not following doctors' advice to use chemotherapy. He spent 7 years attempting to just eat fruit to fight off a mostly curable cancer, and it didn't work.
  - cogman10 3y ago
    I was under the impression that Jobs did nothing for his cancer. He did, in fact, have it surgically removed. He further underwent several surgeries for various problems after the pancreatic cancer diagnosis. It's not clear to me that a doctor wouldn't have advised against chemo for the pancreas. Chemo doesn't always get recommended for cancer treatments (especially now-a-days) and it's not shocking to me that a doctor would potentially recommend against it in his case (super early detection with apparently successful surgery). A little bit like how if you get skin cancer the first line of defense is to simply lop the thing off. You almost never get chemo with skin cancer unless it has progressed. The current 5 year survival rate for pancreatic cancer detected early is 80%. So it's definitely an aggressive cancer even in the best practical scenarios.

TerrifiedMouse 3y ago

Guess that's why he needed those reminders to not get "carried away". That there is a lot he doesn't know. Unfortunately, his cancer treatment was one of those times he did not remember.

BonoboIO 3y ago

He got all the money in the world, cheated (legally) the transplantation list, but was incapable to choose a therapy with a good chance to survive. Even clever people, can be stupid. https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/live-death-math-and-efficiency-the-quest-to-solve-us-organ-transplants-woes/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/live-death-math-and-...