4 ms·

Newsom has "California" next to his name, which is disqualifying for a presidential run as far as I can see it. Too many independents with the opinion that "New

by alexb_ 3y ago

Newsom has "California" next to his name, which is disqualifying for a presidential run as far as I can see it. Too many independents with the opinion that "Newsom made Cali a shithole"

asveikau 3y ago
I think it's mostly Republicans with this view. Anyway, I think national voters are mainly unfamiliar with Newsom, and once he gets exposure he'll be well received. His performance on Hannity is one example of this.
- kaladin-jasnah 3y ago
  I've met Democrats from California with this view as well.
  - asveikau 3y ago
    Those people have been brainwashed by conservatives. I believe Newsom still got handily elected throughout the state, though.
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      there are many negative results of his management one can observe without talking to conservatives: pge bills and blatant crimes rise are some of them.
      - asveikau 3y ago
        > blatant crimes rise Stop watching Fox news.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        I guess you are trolling..
        asveikau 3y ago
        No, just someone who remembers the discourse about violent crime in the 90s, eg. It was much worse than today. American cities are universally much safer than when I was a kid. It makes the claim ridiculous. You can't blame a governor for crime rates anyway. Nor can you draw much correlation to things like policing. It's idiotic and a juvenile view of how and why crime happens. These things happen from so many societal factors and it isn't politicians causing or preventing it. But it's been a republican culture war wedge issue for a few years lately. Seems like you fell for the con.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        in 90s it was worse, then it got better, then current dems consistently making it worse again. > You can't blame a governor for crime rates anyway. dems made small value crimes not felony, it is strong incentive for crime rise, and strong motivation for police to not go after such cases.
        asveikau 3y ago
        > in 90s it was worse, then it got better, then current dems consistently making it worse again. Call me when the murder rate reaches the 1990s peak. They haven't. I'll say again, American cities are much safer than they've been in my living memory. > dems made small value crimes not felony, This is a horse shit explanation. Firstly, that was a ballot initiative passed by will of the voters, probably because California prisons, like most US prisons, have been overcrowded and we have insanely high incarceration rates exceeding pretty much every other nation, which is not appropriate. Secondly, I think people who have looked at this will tell you it had no impact on crime rates. Unless they work for Fox news etc.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > that was a ballot initiative passed by will of the voters that path is easily manipulated and compromised, because majority of voters don't have capacity to carefully review all propositions. And yes, population blindly supporting dems are also accountable for their actions. Not interested to discuss your other statements, because I see them as low quality.
        d-z-m 3y ago
        > Converse curiously. From the guidelines. For those interested in diving deeper on the topic of crime in California: [0]: https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/ [1]: https://data-openjustice.doj.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2023-06/Crime%20In%20CA%202022f.pdf https://data-openjustice.doj.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2023...
        asveikau 3y ago
        > While violent and property crime rates increased in 2021, both remain relatively low That's pretty much it. I get so tired of internet discussions where people do not understand this, and I lost my patience to "converse curiously" with people who choose to remain ignorant of this in order to justify fear or anger or dehumanizing hate. I've had countless discussions, including on HN, where you can cite this and people will sooner say that crime statistics are false, and specifically falsified in a way that destroys their argument, than admit being wrong or not having a complete perspective.
        d-z-m 3y ago
        > I lost my patience to "converse curiously" with people When this happens, simply refrain from commenting until you regain that patience. This forum only remains civil if we all make our best effort to keep it that way.
        asveikau 3y ago
        I think it's possible that we shouldn't be patient with some ideas. Eg. American political discourse has gone so crazy that people can openly support fascism and it's acceptable. I don't think it ought to be.
    - catlover76 3y ago
      I am a California voter who only votes Democrat, and I have voted for Newsom, but I wouldn't say I particularly like him. I don't know anyone who does. Are there people who really like him?
      - reducesuffering 3y ago
        The guy isn't over 70 years old, far left, or a far right looney. Including YIMBY, that's pretty good these days.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > Including YIMBY that's has to be verified, if any affordable housing was approved in reasonable distance from his current house. Approving affordable housing in other's backyard is obviously not YIMBY.
      - asveikau 3y ago
        Yeah, that's a common opinion of Newsom that I hear all the time. I'd say it's pretty close to my opinion too. But seeing him debate Hannity had something click for me. He is pretty sharp, and has some qualities that national democrats have seemed to lack. I started to think he may have a better chance at the presidency than people give him credit for. I start to think a lot of people haven't really gotten to know him, self included. Time will tell how that plays out.
LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
I don’t think an attack like that works on the national level, he’s very polished in his media appearances and his public persona. His personal life is a potential liability, though. He’s a pretty well-known philanderer and that’s exactly how the right knows how to attack opponents.
- Racing0461 3y ago
  > His personal life is a potential liability, though. He’s a pretty well-known philanderer and that’s exactly how the right knows how to attack opponents. nah, it's the cali is a shithole thing.
dmitrygr 3y ago
“Opinion”?
oooyay 3y ago
I disagree. Californians have enjoyed a lot of supremacy at the national level. Nancy Pelosi was the House speaker for quite some time, Kevin McCarthy was elected House speaker. State representatives are pretty immune to this kind of criticism. If someone who managed San Francisco tried to run for national office I think what you said would happen, but I think more than just independents would call them out.
- orange_county 3y ago
  But he did run San Francisco as a mayor.
- r00fus 3y ago
  It’s the world’s 4th largest economy if it were a country. Of course, in an oligarchy (which we are) that has a lot of pull. The “shithole” state nonsense is just copium.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    We are not an oligarchy and that term has a specific meaning you seem to not understand. In the US you don’t become wealthy because of your control of government (an oligarch) you control the government due to having first acquired wealth. This is a plutarchy, which American is a lot closer to being.
    - r00fus 3y ago
      > In the US you don’t become wealthy because of your control of government Why is every single member of Congress vastly richer after a few years in office?
- pests 3y ago
  It's not like 1 out of every 8 Americans live in California or anything.

by alexb_ 3y ago

Newsom has "California" next to his name, which is disqualifying for a presidential run as far as I can see it. Too many independents with the opinion that "Newsom made Cali a shithole"

asveikau 3y ago

I think it's mostly Republicans with this view. Anyway, I think national voters are mainly unfamiliar with Newsom, and once he gets exposure he'll be well received. His performance on Hannity is one example of this.

kaladin-jasnah 3y ago
I've met Democrats from California with this view as well.
- asveikau 3y ago
  Those people have been brainwashed by conservatives. I believe Newsom still got handily elected throughout the state, though.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    there are many negative results of his management one can observe without talking to conservatives: pge bills and blatant crimes rise are some of them.
    - asveikau 3y ago
      > blatant crimes rise Stop watching Fox news.
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        I guess you are trolling..
        asveikau 3y ago
        No, just someone who remembers the discourse about violent crime in the 90s, eg. It was much worse than today. American cities are universally much safer than when I was a kid. It makes the claim ridiculous. You can't blame a governor for crime rates anyway. Nor can you draw much correlation to things like policing. It's idiotic and a juvenile view of how and why crime happens. These things happen from so many societal factors and it isn't politicians causing or preventing it. But it's been a republican culture war wedge issue for a few years lately. Seems like you fell for the con.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        in 90s it was worse, then it got better, then current dems consistently making it worse again. > You can't blame a governor for crime rates anyway. dems made small value crimes not felony, it is strong incentive for crime rise, and strong motivation for police to not go after such cases.
        asveikau 3y ago
        > in 90s it was worse, then it got better, then current dems consistently making it worse again. Call me when the murder rate reaches the 1990s peak. They haven't. I'll say again, American cities are much safer than they've been in my living memory. > dems made small value crimes not felony, This is a horse shit explanation. Firstly, that was a ballot initiative passed by will of the voters, probably because California prisons, like most US prisons, have been overcrowded and we have insanely high incarceration rates exceeding pretty much every other nation, which is not appropriate. Secondly, I think people who have looked at this will tell you it had no impact on crime rates. Unless they work for Fox news etc.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > that was a ballot initiative passed by will of the voters that path is easily manipulated and compromised, because majority of voters don't have capacity to carefully review all propositions. And yes, population blindly supporting dems are also accountable for their actions. Not interested to discuss your other statements, because I see them as low quality.
      - d-z-m 3y ago
        > Converse curiously. From the guidelines. For those interested in diving deeper on the topic of crime in California: [0]: https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/ [1]: https://data-openjustice.doj.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2023-06/Crime%20In%20CA%202022f.pdf https://data-openjustice.doj.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2023...
        asveikau 3y ago
        > While violent and property crime rates increased in 2021, both remain relatively low That's pretty much it. I get so tired of internet discussions where people do not understand this, and I lost my patience to "converse curiously" with people who choose to remain ignorant of this in order to justify fear or anger or dehumanizing hate. I've had countless discussions, including on HN, where you can cite this and people will sooner say that crime statistics are false, and specifically falsified in a way that destroys their argument, than admit being wrong or not having a complete perspective.
        d-z-m 3y ago
        > I lost my patience to "converse curiously" with people When this happens, simply refrain from commenting until you regain that patience. This forum only remains civil if we all make our best effort to keep it that way.
        asveikau 3y ago
        I think it's possible that we shouldn't be patient with some ideas. Eg. American political discourse has gone so crazy that people can openly support fascism and it's acceptable. I don't think it ought to be.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    I am a California voter who only votes Democrat, and I have voted for Newsom, but I wouldn't say I particularly like him. I don't know anyone who does. Are there people who really like him?
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      The guy isn't over 70 years old, far left, or a far right looney. Including YIMBY, that's pretty good these days.
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        > Including YIMBY that's has to be verified, if any affordable housing was approved in reasonable distance from his current house. Approving affordable housing in other's backyard is obviously not YIMBY.
    - asveikau 3y ago
      Yeah, that's a common opinion of Newsom that I hear all the time. I'd say it's pretty close to my opinion too. But seeing him debate Hannity had something click for me. He is pretty sharp, and has some qualities that national democrats have seemed to lack. I started to think he may have a better chance at the presidency than people give him credit for. I start to think a lot of people haven't really gotten to know him, self included. Time will tell how that plays out.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago

I don’t think an attack like that works on the national level, he’s very polished in his media appearances and his public persona. His personal life is a potential liability, though. He’s a pretty well-known philanderer and that’s exactly how the right knows how to attack opponents.

Racing0461 3y ago
> His personal life is a potential liability, though. He’s a pretty well-known philanderer and that’s exactly how the right knows how to attack opponents. nah, it's the cali is a shithole thing.

dmitrygr 3y ago

“Opinion”?

oooyay 3y ago

I disagree. Californians have enjoyed a lot of supremacy at the national level. Nancy Pelosi was the House speaker for quite some time, Kevin McCarthy was elected House speaker. State representatives are pretty immune to this kind of criticism. If someone who managed San Francisco tried to run for national office I think what you said would happen, but I think more than just independents would call them out.

orange_county 3y ago
But he did run San Francisco as a mayor.
r00fus 3y ago
It’s the world’s 4th largest economy if it were a country. Of course, in an oligarchy (which we are) that has a lot of pull. The “shithole” state nonsense is just copium.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  We are not an oligarchy and that term has a specific meaning you seem to not understand. In the US you don’t become wealthy because of your control of government (an oligarch) you control the government due to having first acquired wealth. This is a plutarchy, which American is a lot closer to being.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    > In the US you don’t become wealthy because of your control of government Why is every single member of Congress vastly richer after a few years in office?
pests 3y ago
It's not like 1 out of every 8 Americans live in California or anything.