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There's an "anti-sysv-init train"? `sysvinit` is still available in the current version of Debian, Bookworm, released less than 4 months ago: https://tracker.

There's an "anti-sysv-init train"? `sysvinit` is still available in the current version of Debian, Bookworm, released less than 4 months ago: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/sysvinit https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/sysvinit Note that `runit` is also available: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/runit https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/runit Also, while it's not the default init system, there are instructions for setting it as the active init system, on the Debian wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/Init https://wiki.debian.org/Init Note that while packages aren't forced to provide native sysv init scripts (or native runit init scripts either), I hear that sysv init scripts are just shell scripts that are incredibly easy to write even for inexperienced sysadmins (much easier than writing systemd unit files apparently?) so cobbling together any that are missing for a sysv-based system shouldn't be much work.

_8j50 3y ago
A .deb package being available is not the same as init scripts maintained or being allowed to select an init system during install. Sysv init scripts for every package already existed since that was the only init system in use by debian until 2014, people volunteered to keep maintaining those but they were overriden in lieu if systemd only approach. It seems you didn't use pre-systemd linux. It felt like you controlled the whole OS. Linux has always been about giving control to users. Systemd works great but it's geared towards corporate users who want better managability. So in a way, by violating the unix modularity philosophy, major distros sold out to corporations. Now systemd manages not just init but dns, logging, cron type scheduled jobs, fs mounting, system time,etc... it forced architectural changes where either you accepted systemd way or the unix way. And a lot of projects caved in. Openrc and sysvinit manage init scripts/services. That's it. You know how they work and they are designed to be compatible with anything else. If you need a schedluled managed for example, sysvinit or openrc have no opinions how to do that, you can use cron or your own thing, you have full control. Systemd on the other hand has timers, they work great, but guess what they don't play nice with? Openrc and sysv init. Guess what plays nice with all 3? Cron and it's many implementations. The modular design of Linux gave users power. The centralized opinionated systemd design gives the few "elite" influential people who work for big corporations power and control because their design does not take into account interoperability with arbitrary services.

_8j50 3y ago

A .deb package being available is not the same as init scripts maintained or being allowed to select an init system during install. Sysv init scripts for every package already existed since that was the only init system in use by debian until 2014, people volunteered to keep maintaining those but they were overriden in lieu if systemd only approach. It seems you didn't use pre-systemd linux. It felt like you controlled the whole OS. Linux has always been about giving control to users. Systemd works great but it's geared towards corporate users who want better managability. So in a way, by violating the unix modularity philosophy, major distros sold out to corporations. Now systemd manages not just init but dns, logging, cron type scheduled jobs, fs mounting, system time,etc... it forced architectural changes where either you accepted systemd way or the unix way. And a lot of projects caved in. Openrc and sysvinit manage init scripts/services. That's it. You know how they work and they are designed to be compatible with anything else. If you need a schedluled managed for example, sysvinit or openrc have no opinions how to do that, you can use cron or your own thing, you have full control. Systemd on the other hand has timers, they work great, but guess what they don't play nice with? Openrc and sysv init. Guess what plays nice with all 3? Cron and it's many implementations. The modular design of Linux gave users power. The centralized opinionated systemd design gives the few "elite" influential people who work for big corporations power and control because their design does not take into account interoperability with arbitrary services.