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I'm not sure that those numbers are comparable - the energy used by ICE cars doesn't come from the grid. You need to compare directly the energy used by transpo

by a_t48 3y ago

I'm not sure that those numbers are comparable - the energy used by ICE cars doesn't come from the grid. You need to compare directly the energy used by transport by the amount of grid usage that an electric car nation would have. (Disclaimer, in full support of electric cars, just want accurate numbers)

a_t48 3y ago
Let's run the numbers - Americans used 135B gallons of gas in 2022. Going to ignore diesels for now. Average MPG of a car is 25. 135*25 = 3.3T miles. Teslas get 26 kWh per 100 miles, or about 1/4 kW per mile 3.3T miles / 4 = ~825B kWh = 825TWh or 2.815 quadrillion BTU I sadly have to run and can't make heads nor tails out of the link posted for US energy usage - but at least we know what goes on one side of the equation now.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  Total energy consumption in the US is 100.4q BTU currently. Current electricity generation is 37.8q BTU. It depends how much energy is lost in generating electricity. Since >90% of NEW generation currently comes from solar & wind - the loss will be minimal compared to current methods (coal & natural gas with an average loss >50%). I'm assuming that by the time electric vehicle adoption picks up close to ~0% of NEW generation will come from coal or natural gas. If we would continue to generate ~60% of electric from fossil fuels - it's maybe a net negative trade to move them to electric. But in 15 years - the grid will be <30% fossil fuels, and in 30 it will be close to 0.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
If you have an electric water heater, and you replace that electric water heater with a heat pump water heater and you replace an ICE car with an EV, your electricity usage is likely to go down. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heater-will-save-all-the-electricity-youll-need-to-power-your-electric-vehicle/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heate... That's right, the typical household uses more electricity to heat water than they would to charge an EV.
- gruez 3y ago
  > If you have an electric water heater, and you replace that electric water heater with a heat pump water heater and you replace an ICE car with an EV, your electricity usage is likely to go down. That line of thinking totally ignores the opportunity cost of being able to use the savings from the water heater elsewhere, or not generating the electricity in the first place. Consumption is consumption. You can't pretend it isn't by bundling it with something else. >That's right, the typical household uses more electricity to heat water than they would to charge an EV. That's a leap in logic. Specifically, it assumes that "the typical household" uses an electric water heater.

by a_t48 3y ago

a_t48 3y ago

Let's run the numbers - Americans used 135B gallons of gas in 2022. Going to ignore diesels for now. Average MPG of a car is 25. 135*25 = 3.3T miles. Teslas get 26 kWh per 100 miles, or about 1/4 kW per mile 3.3T miles / 4 = ~825B kWh = 825TWh or 2.815 quadrillion BTU I sadly have to run and can't make heads nor tails out of the link posted for US energy usage - but at least we know what goes on one side of the equation now.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
Total energy consumption in the US is 100.4q BTU currently. Current electricity generation is 37.8q BTU. It depends how much energy is lost in generating electricity. Since >90% of NEW generation currently comes from solar & wind - the loss will be minimal compared to current methods (coal & natural gas with an average loss >50%). I'm assuming that by the time electric vehicle adoption picks up close to ~0% of NEW generation will come from coal or natural gas. If we would continue to generate ~60% of electric from fossil fuels - it's maybe a net negative trade to move them to electric. But in 15 years - the grid will be <30% fossil fuels, and in 30 it will be close to 0.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

If you have an electric water heater, and you replace that electric water heater with a heat pump water heater and you replace an ICE car with an EV, your electricity usage is likely to go down. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heater-will-save-all-the-electricity-youll-need-to-power-your-electric-vehicle/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heate... That's right, the typical household uses more electricity to heat water than they would to charge an EV.

gruez 3y ago
> If you have an electric water heater, and you replace that electric water heater with a heat pump water heater and you replace an ICE car with an EV, your electricity usage is likely to go down. That line of thinking totally ignores the opportunity cost of being able to use the savings from the water heater elsewhere, or not generating the electricity in the first place. Consumption is consumption. You can't pretend it isn't by bundling it with something else. >That's right, the typical household uses more electricity to heat water than they would to charge an EV. That's a leap in logic. Specifically, it assumes that "the typical household" uses an electric water heater.