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Electric cars use 1/4th the energy of ICE cars (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml). Petroleum for trans

Electric cars use 1/4th the energy of ICE cars (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml). Petroleum for transportation currently accounts for 27% of US energy usage (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/). If 100% of cars switch to electric (not happening any time soon) - we only need 25% * 27% = 7% more electricity. We'll be on pace to add that much just in solar in 3 years. It's not going to be a problem to handle electric vehicle adoption over 15 years.

zapdrive 3y ago
> Petroleum for transportation currently accounts for 27% of US energy usage > 25% * 27% = 7% more electricity There is no relation between amount of petroleum used and amount of electricity generated in the data provided by you. All you can say is we need the equivalent amount of 7% extra of total energy used today. You did not provide any data about how much of total energy used is electricity . If electricity is 7% of total energy usage, then we need 100% extra to charge all the cars. TLDR: your math is wrong.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  > There is no relation between amount of petroleum used and amount of electricity generated in the data provided by you. There is. > All you can say is we need the equivalent amount of 7% extra of total energy used today. No. We know how many BTU equivalent are used for electricity generation vs gasoline for transportation. And how much BTU equivalent is needed to power electric cars. > TLDR: your math is wrong. It probably is. Looks like transportation is 36% not 27% - that comes out to ~9% instead of ~7%. The point still stands.
  - zapdrive 3y ago
    > We know how many BTU equivalent are used for electricity generation vs gasoline for transportation. And how much BTU equivalent is needed to power electric cars. Show us the data. > There is. There is literally no relation. "Cars use 27% of total energy in US. And 25% of 27% is equal to 7% of electricity generated." HOW??
    - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
      I already did.
      - zapdrive 3y ago
        Unless you show us data on how much %age of total energy usage is electricity, there is no relation between the two! According to some sources, electricity accounts for about 20% of total energy usage. So with your numbers, we would need extra 6.75% of total energy used. 6.75% of 20% is an extra 33.5% of electricity.
        onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
        It's literally right here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ 100.4q BTU total US energy usage. 37.8q BTU electricity (~37% or ~18% depending on how you count loss). 27.5q BTU transportation (~27% OR ~36% depending on how you count loss). You're assuming that ~60% of NEW electric generation will come from fossil fuels. We won't have a ~60% loss in electric generation from solar & wind - which is currently ~90% of NEW generation. In 5 years, coal & natural gas will likely drop to ~0% of NEW generation.
        gruez 3y ago
        So you admit your original conclusion of "we only need 25% * 27% = 7% more electricity." is wrong? If you take energy use used for transport (27.47), multiply it by 25% (because it's more efficient), you get 6.87. That's 18% of how much we generate in electricity today (37.75), not 7%.
        zapdrive 3y ago
        Ok, 25% of 27.5q BTU = ~ 7q BTU So we need extra 7q BTU of electricity, right? Which is about 18% of 37.8! So, not 7, not 9, we would need at least 18% extra electricity. TLDR: Your math was wrong!
a_t48 3y ago
I'm not sure that those numbers are comparable - the energy used by ICE cars doesn't come from the grid. You need to compare directly the energy used by transport by the amount of grid usage that an electric car nation would have. (Disclaimer, in full support of electric cars, just want accurate numbers)
- a_t48 3y ago
  Let's run the numbers - Americans used 135B gallons of gas in 2022. Going to ignore diesels for now. Average MPG of a car is 25. 135*25 = 3.3T miles. Teslas get 26 kWh per 100 miles, or about 1/4 kW per mile 3.3T miles / 4 = ~825B kWh = 825TWh or 2.815 quadrillion BTU I sadly have to run and can't make heads nor tails out of the link posted for US energy usage - but at least we know what goes on one side of the equation now.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    Total energy consumption in the US is 100.4q BTU currently. Current electricity generation is 37.8q BTU. It depends how much energy is lost in generating electricity. Since >90% of NEW generation currently comes from solar & wind - the loss will be minimal compared to current methods (coal & natural gas with an average loss >50%). I'm assuming that by the time electric vehicle adoption picks up close to ~0% of NEW generation will come from coal or natural gas. If we would continue to generate ~60% of electric from fossil fuels - it's maybe a net negative trade to move them to electric. But in 15 years - the grid will be <30% fossil fuels, and in 30 it will be close to 0.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  If you have an electric water heater, and you replace that electric water heater with a heat pump water heater and you replace an ICE car with an EV, your electricity usage is likely to go down. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heater-will-save-all-the-electricity-youll-need-to-power-your-electric-vehicle/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heate... That's right, the typical household uses more electricity to heat water than they would to charge an EV.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
20% more electricity generation for 100% EV adoption in the US is a figure I've seen quoted before. We need to "electrify everything" and for that (including home heating and industry) I've seen figures around doubling our electricity needs (while lowering our energy needs overall since burning stuff is so inefficient). Luckily, wind and solar are incredibly cheap sources of electricity and not burning fuel in inefficient cars (or home boilers) frees up a whole lot of fossil fuels for other tasks.

zapdrive 3y ago

> Petroleum for transportation currently accounts for 27% of US energy usage > 25% * 27% = 7% more electricity There is no relation between amount of petroleum used and amount of electricity generated in the data provided by you. All you can say is we need the equivalent amount of 7% extra of total energy used today. You did not provide any data about how much of total energy used is electricity . If electricity is 7% of total energy usage, then we need 100% extra to charge all the cars. TLDR: your math is wrong.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
> There is no relation between amount of petroleum used and amount of electricity generated in the data provided by you. There is. > All you can say is we need the equivalent amount of 7% extra of total energy used today. No. We know how many BTU equivalent are used for electricity generation vs gasoline for transportation. And how much BTU equivalent is needed to power electric cars. > TLDR: your math is wrong. It probably is. Looks like transportation is 36% not 27% - that comes out to ~9% instead of ~7%. The point still stands.
- zapdrive 3y ago
  > We know how many BTU equivalent are used for electricity generation vs gasoline for transportation. And how much BTU equivalent is needed to power electric cars. Show us the data. > There is. There is literally no relation. "Cars use 27% of total energy in US. And 25% of 27% is equal to 7% of electricity generated." HOW??
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    I already did.
    - zapdrive 3y ago
      Unless you show us data on how much %age of total energy usage is electricity, there is no relation between the two! According to some sources, electricity accounts for about 20% of total energy usage. So with your numbers, we would need extra 6.75% of total energy used. 6.75% of 20% is an extra 33.5% of electricity.
      - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
        It's literally right here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ 100.4q BTU total US energy usage. 37.8q BTU electricity (~37% or ~18% depending on how you count loss). 27.5q BTU transportation (~27% OR ~36% depending on how you count loss). You're assuming that ~60% of NEW electric generation will come from fossil fuels. We won't have a ~60% loss in electric generation from solar & wind - which is currently ~90% of NEW generation. In 5 years, coal & natural gas will likely drop to ~0% of NEW generation.
        gruez 3y ago
        So you admit your original conclusion of "we only need 25% * 27% = 7% more electricity." is wrong? If you take energy use used for transport (27.47), multiply it by 25% (because it's more efficient), you get 6.87. That's 18% of how much we generate in electricity today (37.75), not 7%.
        zapdrive 3y ago
        Ok, 25% of 27.5q BTU = ~ 7q BTU So we need extra 7q BTU of electricity, right? Which is about 18% of 37.8! So, not 7, not 9, we would need at least 18% extra electricity. TLDR: Your math was wrong!

a_t48 3y ago

I'm not sure that those numbers are comparable - the energy used by ICE cars doesn't come from the grid. You need to compare directly the energy used by transport by the amount of grid usage that an electric car nation would have. (Disclaimer, in full support of electric cars, just want accurate numbers)

a_t48 3y ago
Let's run the numbers - Americans used 135B gallons of gas in 2022. Going to ignore diesels for now. Average MPG of a car is 25. 135*25 = 3.3T miles. Teslas get 26 kWh per 100 miles, or about 1/4 kW per mile 3.3T miles / 4 = ~825B kWh = 825TWh or 2.815 quadrillion BTU I sadly have to run and can't make heads nor tails out of the link posted for US energy usage - but at least we know what goes on one side of the equation now.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  Total energy consumption in the US is 100.4q BTU currently. Current electricity generation is 37.8q BTU. It depends how much energy is lost in generating electricity. Since >90% of NEW generation currently comes from solar & wind - the loss will be minimal compared to current methods (coal & natural gas with an average loss >50%). I'm assuming that by the time electric vehicle adoption picks up close to ~0% of NEW generation will come from coal or natural gas. If we would continue to generate ~60% of electric from fossil fuels - it's maybe a net negative trade to move them to electric. But in 15 years - the grid will be <30% fossil fuels, and in 30 it will be close to 0.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
If you have an electric water heater, and you replace that electric water heater with a heat pump water heater and you replace an ICE car with an EV, your electricity usage is likely to go down. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heater-will-save-all-the-electricity-youll-need-to-power-your-electric-vehicle/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/06/a-heat-pump-water-heate... That's right, the typical household uses more electricity to heat water than they would to charge an EV.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

20% more electricity generation for 100% EV adoption in the US is a figure I've seen quoted before. We need to "electrify everything" and for that (including home heating and industry) I've seen figures around doubling our electricity needs (while lowering our energy needs overall since burning stuff is so inefficient). Luckily, wind and solar are incredibly cheap sources of electricity and not burning fuel in inefficient cars (or home boilers) frees up a whole lot of fossil fuels for other tasks.