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> There is none or next to none in the power space. In states with deregulated markets, there's tons of competition. Gasoline pricing is highly regulated. Pr

> There is none or next to none in the power space. In states with deregulated markets, there's tons of competition. Gasoline pricing is highly regulated. Pricing arguments are a distraction from the idea that spewing garbage into the air just to buy groceries when there's an alternative is terrible.

gruez 3y ago
>Gasoline pricing is highly regulated. In what jurisdiction? In most developed countries they're anything but. Prices go up and down in response to crude oil prices and other factors. If that counts as "highly regulated", I don't know what you'd call prices that are set by government review boards.
- bdcravens 3y ago
  Yes, they have to price greater than what they pay, but they have limited ability to raise prices in terms of demand. This conversation is a bit ironic, considering the number of politicians that use gas prices as a talking point (and their followers who parrot those points)
  - gruez 3y ago
    > Yes, they have to price greater than what they pay, but they have limited ability to raise prices in terms of demand. That's a very creative interpretation of "regulated" means.
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      So do you believe that government has little to no influence on gasoline prices?
      - gruez 3y ago
        I'm not sure makes you think that. I feel like you're trying to move the goalposts. My objection is with your characterization of gas prices as being "regulated", not that the government has zero influence over gas prices.
        bdcravens 3y ago
        mostly I was just responding to the implication that gasoline is a product of the market: "Prices go up and down in response to crude oil prices and other factors." Perhaps if we want to restrict the definition of regulated, then sure, I'll accept that gasoline isn't regulated, but it's hardly laissez faire pricing: the government frequently steps in to squash market pricing. There's a reason you don't see an 88-cent swing in gas prices as your drive across town (88 cents being the historic margin between wholesale and retail) Note that during this exchange you've completely ignored the fact that many states are electricity deregulated. At this moment I can pick from dozens of providers with an array of pricing plans.
        gruez 3y ago
        > mostly I was just responding to the implication that gasoline is a product of the market: "Prices go up and down in response to crude oil prices and other factors." Are crude/gasoline prices not a product of the market? I guess you could argue that it's not the true market price because you could always compare it to the counterfactual price where there's no government involvement in oil production whatsoever, but the government is effectively hands-off when it comes to pricing. It might have policies to promote oil production/trade, but prices are set by interactions between market participants (ie. supply and demand) rather than some sort of government board. >I'll accept that gasoline isn't regulated, but it's hardly laissez faire pricing: the government frequently steps in to squash market pricing. There's a reason you don't see an 88-cent swing in gas prices as your drive across town (88 cents being the historic margin between wholesale and retail) Maybe that's because gas station have similar business models and expenses, which means nobody can charge a $0 markup on wholesale, and competition between stations means that nobody can charge too much above that? >Note that during this exchange you've completely ignored the fact that many states are electricity deregulated. At this moment I can pick from dozens of providers with an array of pricing plans. Actually if you read this exchange carefully I never claimed that electricity had regulated pricing, only the existence of government price boards (in general, not specific to electricity). :^)

gruez 3y ago

>Gasoline pricing is highly regulated. In what jurisdiction? In most developed countries they're anything but. Prices go up and down in response to crude oil prices and other factors. If that counts as "highly regulated", I don't know what you'd call prices that are set by government review boards.

bdcravens 3y ago
Yes, they have to price greater than what they pay, but they have limited ability to raise prices in terms of demand. This conversation is a bit ironic, considering the number of politicians that use gas prices as a talking point (and their followers who parrot those points)
- gruez 3y ago
  > Yes, they have to price greater than what they pay, but they have limited ability to raise prices in terms of demand. That's a very creative interpretation of "regulated" means.
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    So do you believe that government has little to no influence on gasoline prices?
    - gruez 3y ago
      I'm not sure makes you think that. I feel like you're trying to move the goalposts. My objection is with your characterization of gas prices as being "regulated", not that the government has zero influence over gas prices.
      - bdcravens 3y ago
        mostly I was just responding to the implication that gasoline is a product of the market: "Prices go up and down in response to crude oil prices and other factors." Perhaps if we want to restrict the definition of regulated, then sure, I'll accept that gasoline isn't regulated, but it's hardly laissez faire pricing: the government frequently steps in to squash market pricing. There's a reason you don't see an 88-cent swing in gas prices as your drive across town (88 cents being the historic margin between wholesale and retail) Note that during this exchange you've completely ignored the fact that many states are electricity deregulated. At this moment I can pick from dozens of providers with an array of pricing plans.
        gruez 3y ago
        > mostly I was just responding to the implication that gasoline is a product of the market: "Prices go up and down in response to crude oil prices and other factors." Are crude/gasoline prices not a product of the market? I guess you could argue that it's not the true market price because you could always compare it to the counterfactual price where there's no government involvement in oil production whatsoever, but the government is effectively hands-off when it comes to pricing. It might have policies to promote oil production/trade, but prices are set by interactions between market participants (ie. supply and demand) rather than some sort of government board. >I'll accept that gasoline isn't regulated, but it's hardly laissez faire pricing: the government frequently steps in to squash market pricing. There's a reason you don't see an 88-cent swing in gas prices as your drive across town (88 cents being the historic margin between wholesale and retail) Maybe that's because gas station have similar business models and expenses, which means nobody can charge a $0 markup on wholesale, and competition between stations means that nobody can charge too much above that? >Note that during this exchange you've completely ignored the fact that many states are electricity deregulated. At this moment I can pick from dozens of providers with an array of pricing plans. Actually if you read this exchange carefully I never claimed that electricity had regulated pricing, only the existence of government price boards (in general, not specific to electricity). :^)