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You forgot taxes. $38k - $27k in taxes = $11k savings. So 9 years to save up, by which time housing inflation will have taken the price to ~$700k. You are then

You forgot taxes. $38k - $27k in taxes = $11k savings. So 9 years to save up, by which time housing inflation will have taken the price to ~$700k. You are then $40k short for the down payment.

neogodless 3y ago
Do you know a lot of software engineers that barely make $100k? That's why I'm not getting caught up in the particulars of this example.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  There are many people in software that are making under $100k Anyone working in in a government position, or for a state university, or for a nonprofit is probably not earning $100k except maybe in high COL areas or those with quite senior positions.
  - phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
    In Europe frontend is about 60k annually.
- anvil-on-my-toe 3y ago
  Don't you think it's interesting that taxes dramatically skew the example? Think about people earning $50k - $100k. 37 million households in the US. Another 34 million households earn less. 128 million households in America total.[1] 12, give or take 2, years into professional life, you sign a 30-year note and cash out all of your savings. Wages and cost of living won't be constant, but that's basically the optimistic case. Working 42 years to retire by owning one basic shelter. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distri...
  - neogodless 3y ago
    To be sure if we want an example with someone making $80k after tax, we should really not be looking at houses above $400k. Yes, home prices are nuts, as I observed, but no one should be spending 5x gross income and 6.25x net income on housing. In my own life, I spent about 2.5x gross income for both of my home purchases. And they were arguably more home than I needed. When I bought my first house, I was single, and I rented out the two other bedrooms. My spouse and I bought a house together, but ultimately could not have children, so the house is too big. (We also live on an acre and have a lot to maintain.) Now I know these Philly suburbs are nothing compared to California real estate, but it's still a medium to high cost of living area compared to the rest of the country, where we're minutes away from any kind of shopping or entertainment we'd want, and 45 minutes from the large international airport. For sure the rising housing costs make it even harder for households making less than the median. I never argued otherwise. My point was about that which started this thread, that there is "no option" but to work for a big, awful tech company. I disagree, and elevated housing costs don't change that.
- imetatroll 3y ago
  I've been stuck making $60K for 15+ years.

You forgot taxes. $38k - $27k in taxes = $11k savings. So 9 years to save up, by which time housing inflation will have taken the price to ~$700k. You are then $40k short for the down payment.

neogodless 3y ago

Do you know a lot of software engineers that barely make $100k? That's why I'm not getting caught up in the particulars of this example.

SoftTalker 3y ago
There are many people in software that are making under $100k Anyone working in in a government position, or for a state university, or for a nonprofit is probably not earning $100k except maybe in high COL areas or those with quite senior positions.
- phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
  In Europe frontend is about 60k annually.
anvil-on-my-toe 3y ago
Don't you think it's interesting that taxes dramatically skew the example? Think about people earning $50k - $100k. 37 million households in the US. Another 34 million households earn less. 128 million households in America total.[1] 12, give or take 2, years into professional life, you sign a 30-year note and cash out all of your savings. Wages and cost of living won't be constant, but that's basically the optimistic case. Working 42 years to retire by owning one basic shelter. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distri...
- neogodless 3y ago
  To be sure if we want an example with someone making $80k after tax, we should really not be looking at houses above $400k. Yes, home prices are nuts, as I observed, but no one should be spending 5x gross income and 6.25x net income on housing. In my own life, I spent about 2.5x gross income for both of my home purchases. And they were arguably more home than I needed. When I bought my first house, I was single, and I rented out the two other bedrooms. My spouse and I bought a house together, but ultimately could not have children, so the house is too big. (We also live on an acre and have a lot to maintain.) Now I know these Philly suburbs are nothing compared to California real estate, but it's still a medium to high cost of living area compared to the rest of the country, where we're minutes away from any kind of shopping or entertainment we'd want, and 45 minutes from the large international airport. For sure the rising housing costs make it even harder for households making less than the median. I never argued otherwise. My point was about that which started this thread, that there is "no option" but to work for a big, awful tech company. I disagree, and elevated housing costs don't change that.
imetatroll 3y ago
I've been stuck making $60K for 15+ years.