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> There is competition in the gasoline space. The US government heavily subsidizes gasoline (and every other fossil fuel), which is just as market-distorting a

by kibwen 3y ago

> There is competition in the gasoline space. The US government heavily subsidizes gasoline (and every other fossil fuel), which is just as market-distorting as what you describe. The market price does not reflect the real cost of production.

gruez 3y ago
>The US government heavily subsidizes gasoline (and every other fossil fuel), which is just as market-distorting as what you describe. The market price does not reflect the real cost of production. Source? AFAIK the articles/studies that make that claim use a very generous definition of "subsidies", which include stuff like accelerated depreciation[1], and not taxing externalities associated with carbon emissions. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2013/01/02/oil-gas-tax-provisions-are-not-subsidies-for-big-oil/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2013/01/02/oil-ga...
- treyd 3y ago
  It's not gasoline directly, it's oil (and other fossil fuels) more broadly: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trill...
  - gruez 3y ago
    Your source has the exact issues that I mentioned in the previous comment, and fails to address them. >Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies, which took the form of tax breaks or, to a much larger degree, health and environmental damages that were not priced into the cost of fossil fuels, according to the analysis.
    - treyd 3y ago
      Tax breaks are equivalent to subsidies at the scale that fossil companies operate at.
- cagenut 3y ago
  this is one of those things where you simply have to decide if your understanding of reality, let alone your moral calculus, includes some large % of the ~800B/yr 'defense' budget. the thing we 'defend' are 'our interests' and top of those are secure shipping lanes, pipelines, and cooperative regimes for the smooth, stable supply (and therefore pricing) of the oil that fuels our emp^H^Hconomy.

by kibwen 3y ago

gruez 3y ago

>The US government heavily subsidizes gasoline (and every other fossil fuel), which is just as market-distorting as what you describe. The market price does not reflect the real cost of production. Source? AFAIK the articles/studies that make that claim use a very generous definition of "subsidies", which include stuff like accelerated depreciation[1], and not taxing externalities associated with carbon emissions. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2013/01/02/oil-gas-tax-provisions-are-not-subsidies-for-big-oil/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2013/01/02/oil-ga...

treyd 3y ago
It's not gasoline directly, it's oil (and other fossil fuels) more broadly: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trill...
- gruez 3y ago
  Your source has the exact issues that I mentioned in the previous comment, and fails to address them. >Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies, which took the form of tax breaks or, to a much larger degree, health and environmental damages that were not priced into the cost of fossil fuels, according to the analysis.
  - treyd 3y ago
    Tax breaks are equivalent to subsidies at the scale that fossil companies operate at.
cagenut 3y ago
this is one of those things where you simply have to decide if your understanding of reality, let alone your moral calculus, includes some large % of the ~800B/yr 'defense' budget. the thing we 'defend' are 'our interests' and top of those are secure shipping lanes, pipelines, and cooperative regimes for the smooth, stable supply (and therefore pricing) of the oil that fuels our emp^H^Hconomy.