5 ms·

Pi4 is still a great piece of kit, it's only 8W (the 5 is 12W), and you're not going to be as worried with cooling. There are a ton of projects out there for wh

Pi4 is still a great piece of kit, it's only 8W (the 5 is 12W), and you're not going to be as worried with cooling. There are a ton of projects out there for which the 4 is a good choice. For a general purpose computer though, the 5 is getting to the point where it is competitive for a lot of use cases where the 4 was a bit of a struggle. It sounds like I could definitely consider using a 5 as a mini-workstation for web browsing, some light dev work and the like, in those cases where the 4 felt a little clunky.

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
I feel like the Zero 2 W is the new low-power option. Its 4 cores should be enough for most things, the 512MB RAM limit is a bit unfortunate though.
- rcarmo 3y ago
  Get a Radxa Zero, I've been using one with 4GB of RAM and 64GB EMMC: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2023/10/07/1830 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2023/10/07/1830
  - dark-star 3y ago
    Cool little device, but will it work with the RGB2HDMI, PiStorm or PiSCSI? I doubt it but if it were, that would be awesome
  - MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
    Looks interesting. Page doesn't say if drivers are mainlined?
  - blacksmith_tb 3y ago
    Looks promising, but it's also a pretty different machine - I like the Pi Zero because it's cheap and just capable enough (basically I want a full OS, but I would never consider using a Zero as a desktop). The Radxa-s look quite a bit more powerful, but they're also twice the price, and once you're spending that much, the possible gotchas with software support make it a lot less enticing to me.
    - rcarmo 3y ago
      Which is why I only pick boards that run Armbian.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  it does seem like there is an in between that might be nice. specifically something at the roughly 4 gigs RAM but 5 watts, lower clocks and worse graphics. I think that's just about the right specs for a machine to run Linux without a fan and provide a good entry level experience (i.e. can do some real work in a terminal and watch video in a browser)
sho_hn 3y ago
> it's only 8W (the 5 is 12W) It's 12W under high load, but at equivalent load (in terms of output performance) to a 4B draws less power.
- geerlingguy 3y ago
  At idle it draws .2W more, but at anything above that you get 2x the performance per watt, minimum.
pja 3y ago
An uncooled Pi5 is faster than a Pi4 running the same code. A Pi4 is still a perfectly fine microcomputer.
- digitalsushi 3y ago
  especially in a dusty woodshop
ralphc 3y ago
Yeah, as soon as I heard about the 5 needing cooling for most tasks I went ahead and got a 8GB Pi 4. That will be powerful enough for what I'm going to use it for, I have plenty of "real" computers for beefier projects.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  A Pi 5 shouldn't require cooling for anything that a Pi 4 doesn't require cooling for. Pi 4s require cooling for many workloads (they run notoriously hot). You're more likely to run into the needs-cooling envelope of a Pi 4.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > Yeah, as soon as I heard about the 5 needing cooling for most tasks (...) I'm sure those who put a premium on thermals or quietness will be able to run RPi5 with passive cooling if they really want to. The RPi4 already suffered from thermal issues and that didn't pose a major problem. Anyone could simply drop by Amazon and pick one of the many passive cooling cases without any issue.
  - geerlingguy 3y ago
    I'm hoping Flirc updates their passive heatsink case for Pi 5. It's my favorite case for the Pi, and it should be able to handle the 5's slightly increased temps.
- coder543 3y ago
  > Yeah, as soon as I heard about the 5 needing cooling for most tasks I went ahead and got a 8GB Pi 4. You heard wrong, then. "For normal usage of your Raspberry Pi, adding cooling is entirely optional. The idle performance of a Raspberry Pi 4 and a Raspberry Pi 5 is about the same, and under typical loads Raspberry Pi 5 will run cooler than a similarly loaded Raspberry Pi 4." "even when fully throttled, a Raspberry Pi 5 is still going to run faster than a Raspberry Pi 4!" https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/heating-and-cooling-raspberry-pi-5/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/heating-and-cooling-raspber... A Pi 5 has a higher performance ceiling than the Pi 4 when passively cooled, and an even higher one with active cooling. The Pi 5 does not need cooling for most tasks.
heresie-dabord 3y ago
I enjoy using the R.Pi 4 and R.Pi 400 and from the start I've been a supporter of this class of relatively inexpensive Linux-first device. But the R.Pi 4x series is peak R.Pi for me. In the last couple of years, NUC-class SFF devices with Intel-based chipsets have appeared [1] and they offer a much better performance profile (speed, power consumption) than the R.Pi 5. Some of these devices offer dual gigabit Ethernet. [1] Liliputing is one site that I follow for related information.
- eropple 3y ago
  The Orange Pi 5 series offers similar in a relatively small board factor too, though, as well as stuff like HDMI video capture, built-in or modular eMMC, Rockchip's new(-ish) NPU, dual 2.5Gbps Ethernet, and M.2 support. It's a big reason why the RPi5 kind of falls flat for me: it's a worse one of those, and not really much cheaper. I have a few NUC-style very small form factor Intel machines around too, of course, but there are a lot of good options out there and ARM shouldn't be discounted.
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
    Orange Pi is a great platform & I have one, but now the SBC price is hovering around $100 or more and so a the reused 1L business mini-pc makes even more sense, if it's computing you're after.
    - eropple 3y ago
      Price-competitive NUCs are generally very old Celerons (J4105 and similar), which are CPU-competitive with the RK3588S but generally a little slower. Those NUCs also generally have glacially slow GPUs and poor hardware acceleration for stuff like video. And a lot of the mainboards of that era can't go over 4GB of RAM, whereas you can get 16GB in an Orange Pi 5; I've got three of those in my home k8s cluster alongside some older amd64 PCs.
      - cfn 3y ago
        I got a couple of Lenovo i5s with 8Gb for 99 Euros each on Amazon a few months ago. They even came with a 500Gb SSD and Windows 8 installed (or was it Windows 7? I can't remember, they are running Ubuntu at the moment). They are much better than a Pi and cheaper given the sourcing dificulties.
pmontra 3y ago
And a Pi 3b with a TV hat and tvheadend is a little less than 4 W at almost zero load.

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago

I feel like the Zero 2 W is the new low-power option. Its 4 cores should be enough for most things, the 512MB RAM limit is a bit unfortunate though.

rcarmo 3y ago
Get a Radxa Zero, I've been using one with 4GB of RAM and 64GB EMMC: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2023/10/07/1830 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2023/10/07/1830
- dark-star 3y ago
  Cool little device, but will it work with the RGB2HDMI, PiStorm or PiSCSI? I doubt it but if it were, that would be awesome
- MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
  Looks interesting. Page doesn't say if drivers are mainlined?
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  Looks promising, but it's also a pretty different machine - I like the Pi Zero because it's cheap and just capable enough (basically I want a full OS, but I would never consider using a Zero as a desktop). The Radxa-s look quite a bit more powerful, but they're also twice the price, and once you're spending that much, the possible gotchas with software support make it a lot less enticing to me.
  - rcarmo 3y ago
    Which is why I only pick boards that run Armbian.
adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
it does seem like there is an in between that might be nice. specifically something at the roughly 4 gigs RAM but 5 watts, lower clocks and worse graphics. I think that's just about the right specs for a machine to run Linux without a fan and provide a good entry level experience (i.e. can do some real work in a terminal and watch video in a browser)

sho_hn 3y ago

> it's only 8W (the 5 is 12W) It's 12W under high load, but at equivalent load (in terms of output performance) to a 4B draws less power.

geerlingguy 3y ago
At idle it draws .2W more, but at anything above that you get 2x the performance per watt, minimum.

pja 3y ago

An uncooled Pi5 is faster than a Pi4 running the same code. A Pi4 is still a perfectly fine microcomputer.

digitalsushi 3y ago
especially in a dusty woodshop

ralphc 3y ago

Yeah, as soon as I heard about the 5 needing cooling for most tasks I went ahead and got a 8GB Pi 4. That will be powerful enough for what I'm going to use it for, I have plenty of "real" computers for beefier projects.

sho_hn 3y ago
A Pi 5 shouldn't require cooling for anything that a Pi 4 doesn't require cooling for. Pi 4s require cooling for many workloads (they run notoriously hot). You're more likely to run into the needs-cooling envelope of a Pi 4.
rewmie 3y ago
> Yeah, as soon as I heard about the 5 needing cooling for most tasks (...) I'm sure those who put a premium on thermals or quietness will be able to run RPi5 with passive cooling if they really want to. The RPi4 already suffered from thermal issues and that didn't pose a major problem. Anyone could simply drop by Amazon and pick one of the many passive cooling cases without any issue.
- geerlingguy 3y ago
  I'm hoping Flirc updates their passive heatsink case for Pi 5. It's my favorite case for the Pi, and it should be able to handle the 5's slightly increased temps.
coder543 3y ago
> Yeah, as soon as I heard about the 5 needing cooling for most tasks I went ahead and got a 8GB Pi 4. You heard wrong, then. "For normal usage of your Raspberry Pi, adding cooling is entirely optional. The idle performance of a Raspberry Pi 4 and a Raspberry Pi 5 is about the same, and under typical loads Raspberry Pi 5 will run cooler than a similarly loaded Raspberry Pi 4." "even when fully throttled, a Raspberry Pi 5 is still going to run faster than a Raspberry Pi 4!" https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/heating-and-cooling-raspberry-pi-5/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/heating-and-cooling-raspber... A Pi 5 has a higher performance ceiling than the Pi 4 when passively cooled, and an even higher one with active cooling. The Pi 5 does not need cooling for most tasks.

heresie-dabord 3y ago

I enjoy using the R.Pi 4 and R.Pi 400 and from the start I've been a supporter of this class of relatively inexpensive Linux-first device. But the R.Pi 4x series is peak R.Pi for me. In the last couple of years, NUC-class SFF devices with Intel-based chipsets have appeared [1] and they offer a much better performance profile (speed, power consumption) than the R.Pi 5. Some of these devices offer dual gigabit Ethernet. [1] Liliputing is one site that I follow for related information.

eropple 3y ago
The Orange Pi 5 series offers similar in a relatively small board factor too, though, as well as stuff like HDMI video capture, built-in or modular eMMC, Rockchip's new(-ish) NPU, dual 2.5Gbps Ethernet, and M.2 support. It's a big reason why the RPi5 kind of falls flat for me: it's a worse one of those, and not really much cheaper. I have a few NUC-style very small form factor Intel machines around too, of course, but there are a lot of good options out there and ARM shouldn't be discounted.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Orange Pi is a great platform & I have one, but now the SBC price is hovering around $100 or more and so a the reused 1L business mini-pc makes even more sense, if it's computing you're after.
  - eropple 3y ago
    Price-competitive NUCs are generally very old Celerons (J4105 and similar), which are CPU-competitive with the RK3588S but generally a little slower. Those NUCs also generally have glacially slow GPUs and poor hardware acceleration for stuff like video. And a lot of the mainboards of that era can't go over 4GB of RAM, whereas you can get 16GB in an Orange Pi 5; I've got three of those in my home k8s cluster alongside some older amd64 PCs.
    - cfn 3y ago
      I got a couple of Lenovo i5s with 8Gb for 99 Euros each on Amazon a few months ago. They even came with a 500Gb SSD and Windows 8 installed (or was it Windows 7? I can't remember, they are running Ubuntu at the moment). They are much better than a Pi and cheaper given the sourcing dificulties.

pmontra 3y ago

And a Pi 3b with a TV hat and tvheadend is a little less than 4 W at almost zero load.