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My experience was the same traveling Europe by rail. It's such a lovely idea, I just wish they were more financially competitive. Most trains did arrive a few

My experience was the same traveling Europe by rail. It's such a lovely idea, I just wish they were more financially competitive. Most trains did arrive a few hours late in the end. I remember on one train from Prague to Cologne, the train had to sit outside a station for multiple hours while two passengers argued outside(?) and the train staff waited for police at ~midnight.

kalleboo 3y ago
My experience riding trains in Europe as a European is that everything is great when you're traveling domestically (bar the usual complaints from any commuter that exist but differ between any mode of transport) but once you take a train that crosses a border things really fall apart. Especially when it's not some commuter line. That's one thing I wish the EU really did better - do more to integrate and de-federate the rail systems. There should be no major difference riding the rails in any state. Of course, this is a lofty goal since even within countries usually commuter transport is run by local companies and not even nationally interoperable.
- somewhereoutth 3y ago
  There is the TEN-T plan, which attempts to integrate all transport modalities across the EU https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructure-and-investment/trans-european-transport-network-ten-t_en https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructu...
  - ant6n 3y ago
    That’s an infrastructure plan, not operations.
- bondarchuk 3y ago
  Trains within Germany (Deutsche Bahn) are also simply a shitshow. One can get the feeling that they kind of ruin it for the neighbouring countries as well.
  - ornornor 3y ago
    I avoid the EC trains here in Switzerland that are coming from Germany exactly for that reason: late, crowded, broken. They just suck. The return trip when leaving from CH going to DE is usually ok (at least for the commuter part that I need them for)
PaulHoule 3y ago
I was living in Germany in 1999 and rode night trains all over Europe. Even then I was amazed at how much better the air travel experience was in Europe compared to the U.S. (much more competitive) and it seemed the Europeans I knew were more inclined to fly than I was, since taking the train is a novelty to an American. High-speed rail became dominant in the next decade and I think it was the cynical kind of of ‘competition’ that if there is an affordable option and an astronomically expensive option (HSR is often 2x or 3x the cost of flying) why should the provider offer the affordable one? (It’s like how a car dealer has no M or L cars but they have rows and rows of unsold XL, XXL, and XXXL SUVs)
- addicted 3y ago
  The EU is trying to do to rail travel what the U.S. (and the EU) did for plane travel by deregulating it, breaking down monopolies so the private sector could enter and drive down prices. They passed a bunch of rules requiring the separation of the track ownership from the train ownership which means any private company can come in, lease some track time, lease some trains, and become a train operator overnight. Similar rule changes have led to tremendous improvements in Italy for example, which had the unfortunate (?) side effect of bankrupting the national plane carrier Alitalia (not sure if it’s really unfortunate considering it was heavily subsidized by the govt, much like plane travel throughout the world, where govts inevitably subsidize plane travel by bailing out plane companies on a regular basis, and even the companies that don’t need bailing out benefit because they share costs with highly unprofitable companies essentially running on govt bailouts).
phh 3y ago
> I just wish they were more financially competitive. I'm doing Paris <=> Wien, and it was financially competitive to airplanes. 100€/person/way (ok cheapest seat rate, that's probably very uncomfortable... I'll see) I had 240€/person/2 way with airplanes. I just checked airplane prices again and that's still pretty much the same prices (a bit lower than train if you accept going to the FarAwayAirport, much higher if you take the Airport on a train/subway station) It does take a lot more time because it's one train every 2 day and arrives a bit late to do train => home => workplace, so if you value being where you want to be when you want to be, you could probably say that airplanes is more competitive)
- bertil 3y ago
  I usually compare those to flights that arrive conveniently early for business travelers and cheaper, less business-friendly flights combined with a hotel night; night trains usually win when there’s a convenient option.
- xcdzvyn 3y ago
  Cattle class was decently comfortable on every train I was on, and combined with the far lower (almost pleasant) noise of trains vs. aircraft engines, it was a far nicer experience overall. Though supposedly theft is a greater issue on night trains than flights, so I was apprehensive to sleep..
  - katbyte 3y ago
    Also no security and you. An arrive 5-10 before departure vs 1-4 hours depending on the airport and time (and just not dealing with security period)
    - spockz 3y ago
      Be careful with arriving just on time. We were refused boarding the Thalys once because on the station attendants watch it was 4 minutes to the time instead of 5. So we were refused on the platform even though the conductor of the train a few meters off was urging us to come and hurry. (It was also the last train of the day that would get us to our destination. Ultimately we got a nice story out of it. But it still smarts.)

kalleboo 3y ago

My experience riding trains in Europe as a European is that everything is great when you're traveling domestically (bar the usual complaints from any commuter that exist but differ between any mode of transport) but once you take a train that crosses a border things really fall apart. Especially when it's not some commuter line. That's one thing I wish the EU really did better - do more to integrate and de-federate the rail systems. There should be no major difference riding the rails in any state. Of course, this is a lofty goal since even within countries usually commuter transport is run by local companies and not even nationally interoperable.

somewhereoutth 3y ago
There is the TEN-T plan, which attempts to integrate all transport modalities across the EU https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructure-and-investment/trans-european-transport-network-ten-t_en https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructu...
- ant6n 3y ago
  That’s an infrastructure plan, not operations.
bondarchuk 3y ago
Trains within Germany (Deutsche Bahn) are also simply a shitshow. One can get the feeling that they kind of ruin it for the neighbouring countries as well.
- ornornor 3y ago
  I avoid the EC trains here in Switzerland that are coming from Germany exactly for that reason: late, crowded, broken. They just suck. The return trip when leaving from CH going to DE is usually ok (at least for the commuter part that I need them for)

PaulHoule 3y ago

I was living in Germany in 1999 and rode night trains all over Europe. Even then I was amazed at how much better the air travel experience was in Europe compared to the U.S. (much more competitive) and it seemed the Europeans I knew were more inclined to fly than I was, since taking the train is a novelty to an American. High-speed rail became dominant in the next decade and I think it was the cynical kind of of ‘competition’ that if there is an affordable option and an astronomically expensive option (HSR is often 2x or 3x the cost of flying) why should the provider offer the affordable one? (It’s like how a car dealer has no M or L cars but they have rows and rows of unsold XL, XXL, and XXXL SUVs)

addicted 3y ago
The EU is trying to do to rail travel what the U.S. (and the EU) did for plane travel by deregulating it, breaking down monopolies so the private sector could enter and drive down prices. They passed a bunch of rules requiring the separation of the track ownership from the train ownership which means any private company can come in, lease some track time, lease some trains, and become a train operator overnight. Similar rule changes have led to tremendous improvements in Italy for example, which had the unfortunate (?) side effect of bankrupting the national plane carrier Alitalia (not sure if it’s really unfortunate considering it was heavily subsidized by the govt, much like plane travel throughout the world, where govts inevitably subsidize plane travel by bailing out plane companies on a regular basis, and even the companies that don’t need bailing out benefit because they share costs with highly unprofitable companies essentially running on govt bailouts).

phh 3y ago

> I just wish they were more financially competitive. I'm doing Paris <=> Wien, and it was financially competitive to airplanes. 100€/person/way (ok cheapest seat rate, that's probably very uncomfortable... I'll see) I had 240€/person/2 way with airplanes. I just checked airplane prices again and that's still pretty much the same prices (a bit lower than train if you accept going to the FarAwayAirport, much higher if you take the Airport on a train/subway station) It does take a lot more time because it's one train every 2 day and arrives a bit late to do train => home => workplace, so if you value being where you want to be when you want to be, you could probably say that airplanes is more competitive)

bertil 3y ago
I usually compare those to flights that arrive conveniently early for business travelers and cheaper, less business-friendly flights combined with a hotel night; night trains usually win when there’s a convenient option.
xcdzvyn 3y ago
Cattle class was decently comfortable on every train I was on, and combined with the far lower (almost pleasant) noise of trains vs. aircraft engines, it was a far nicer experience overall. Though supposedly theft is a greater issue on night trains than flights, so I was apprehensive to sleep..
- katbyte 3y ago
  Also no security and you. An arrive 5-10 before departure vs 1-4 hours depending on the airport and time (and just not dealing with security period)
  - spockz 3y ago
    Be careful with arriving just on time. We were refused boarding the Thalys once because on the station attendants watch it was 4 minutes to the time instead of 5. So we were refused on the platform even though the conductor of the train a few meters off was urging us to come and hurry. (It was also the last train of the day that would get us to our destination. Ultimately we got a nice story out of it. But it still smarts.)