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It also puts California very close to the European countries with the highest margin tax rates (for instance, Spain and France have similar rates). This isn't

It also puts California very close to the European countries with the highest margin tax rates (for instance, Spain and France have similar rates). This isn't even remotely true. In France, the highest marginal rate kicks in at EUR 160k (approximately $170k). To get the same marginal tax rate in California, you would need to be making approximately $350k (approximately EUR 330k), or more than twice as much. (Note that in all cases, I am excluding payroll taxes like US SSI or French CSG). (or very cheap) healthcare, cheap university education, and a strong social welfare net The Europeans paying the same marginal rates as their extremely wealthy Californian counterparts generally do not qualify for most of this benefits of the strong social welfare net, and for the most part have chosen to have the bulk of their medical treatment in the U.S., paying out-of-pocket even though they could get the same treatment locally for free or very cheaply.

pfannkuchen 3y ago
They do qualify if they suddenly become poor, which is the point of the safety net. > $350k… extremely wealthy In many parts of California this is someone who can buy a just okay house with a long mortgage. Have we redefined the word wealthy?
- gamblor956 3y ago
  350k is 99th percentile in terms of income, so I'm not the one redfining "wealthy". If you can't afford a nice house with 350k/year, move a mile or two away from your upper class enclave to the middle class neighborhood and live like a king. (Per Nerdwallet, 350k/year is enough to qualify for a mortgage for a $1.35 million property with 20% down. I live in a nice part of LA and places here cost significantly less than 1.35 million.)
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    It's not. 350k is 3% for the entire USA [1]. For somewhere like California if your _household_ isn't making $1M you're not 1% [2]. Even in the poorest state (West Virginia) if you lived alone then you're not even a 1%-er. People really do think of themselves as at the top when they're not. You're very good but not the top. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_States [2]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-top-1-percent-in-each-u-s-state/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-top-1-percent-in...
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  > someone who can buy a just okay house with a long mortgage. Look up housing prices in some major European cities (generally way less affordable that in most of the US if adjusted by income). In London, Paris or Munich prices are about as bad as in SF or NY yet median income is considerably lower (also good luck getting a fixed 30 year mortgage, so there is also considerably more risk even if you can afford it) > suddenly become poor If you earn over €350k per year you really have to make some very poor financial decisions for that to happen. Besides from changing illnesses/accidents etc. but you would still most likely end up in a much better position financially if you saved that extra 10% you pay in taxes or went with a private insurance option. Of course healthcare is probably a different matter.
raesene9 3y ago
Do you have a citation for the idea that wealthy Europeans are getting the bulk of their treatment in the US? I can't say I've ever come across that idea at all. I've heard of people paying for private medical care, to supplement their free healthcare, but not traveling to the US for it.
- gmerc 3y ago
  European Health and Dental Tourism is Korea and BKK these days, nobody in their right mind would go US unless it’s a very specialized condition.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  Yeah, that sounds like a very strange claim. There are some very decent/expensive private hospitals in Germany, Switzerland and I assume elsewhere..
anonzzzies 3y ago
> and for the most part have chosen to have the bulk of their medical treatment in the U.S. Citation? Because that is very rare, even for the very rich.
profeatur 3y ago
This is generally true, except that it’s not necessary to travel to the US. You can see a local private doctor or dentist (often accredited by a US university, using US developed medical technology) locally.

pfannkuchen 3y ago

They do qualify if they suddenly become poor, which is the point of the safety net. > $350k… extremely wealthy In many parts of California this is someone who can buy a just okay house with a long mortgage. Have we redefined the word wealthy?

gamblor956 3y ago
350k is 99th percentile in terms of income, so I'm not the one redfining "wealthy". If you can't afford a nice house with 350k/year, move a mile or two away from your upper class enclave to the middle class neighborhood and live like a king. (Per Nerdwallet, 350k/year is enough to qualify for a mortgage for a $1.35 million property with 20% down. I live in a nice part of LA and places here cost significantly less than 1.35 million.)
- lesuorac 3y ago
  It's not. 350k is 3% for the entire USA [1]. For somewhere like California if your _household_ isn't making $1M you're not 1% [2]. Even in the poorest state (West Virginia) if you lived alone then you're not even a 1%-er. People really do think of themselves as at the top when they're not. You're very good but not the top. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_States [2]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-top-1-percent-in-each-u-s-state/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-top-1-percent-in...
ffgjgf1 3y ago
> someone who can buy a just okay house with a long mortgage. Look up housing prices in some major European cities (generally way less affordable that in most of the US if adjusted by income). In London, Paris or Munich prices are about as bad as in SF or NY yet median income is considerably lower (also good luck getting a fixed 30 year mortgage, so there is also considerably more risk even if you can afford it) > suddenly become poor If you earn over €350k per year you really have to make some very poor financial decisions for that to happen. Besides from changing illnesses/accidents etc. but you would still most likely end up in a much better position financially if you saved that extra 10% you pay in taxes or went with a private insurance option. Of course healthcare is probably a different matter.

raesene9 3y ago

Do you have a citation for the idea that wealthy Europeans are getting the bulk of their treatment in the US? I can't say I've ever come across that idea at all. I've heard of people paying for private medical care, to supplement their free healthcare, but not traveling to the US for it.

gmerc 3y ago
European Health and Dental Tourism is Korea and BKK these days, nobody in their right mind would go US unless it’s a very specialized condition.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
Yeah, that sounds like a very strange claim. There are some very decent/expensive private hospitals in Germany, Switzerland and I assume elsewhere..

anonzzzies 3y ago

> and for the most part have chosen to have the bulk of their medical treatment in the U.S. Citation? Because that is very rare, even for the very rich.

profeatur 3y ago

This is generally true, except that it’s not necessary to travel to the US. You can see a local private doctor or dentist (often accredited by a US university, using US developed medical technology) locally.