5 ms·

> maybe we Americans should question whether we should have the arguers, as well as the arguments, in the US in the first place That certainly doesn't sound bl

> maybe we Americans should question whether we should have the arguers, as well as the arguments, in the US in the first place That certainly doesn't sound blanket racist against an ethnicity of 1.5 billion people... Land of free speech indeed.

TMWNN 3y ago
>Land of free speech indeed. Yes, and I want to keep it that way. I ask again: What is the obligation for America, or Americans, to host intra-South Asian arguments and their arguers? Arguments that do not, in theory, involve any non-South Asians whatsoever? Is the only allowed outcome one in which the number and volume of said arguments hosted by America increase? As I said: >Like all immigrants Indians should be evaluated on their potential to contribute to the US in positive and negative ways. There is no inherent right for South Asians to enter the US other than on the US government and its people's sufferance of same. If Americans decide that the disadvantages from the presence of South Asians (or Kenyans, or Danish, or Guatemalans, or New Zealanders) exceed the advantages, there can and should be consequences regarding immigration, visa, and naturalization laws. What should not happen is to preemptively squelch any efforts toward determining this as "blanket racism", any more than existing laws that apply uniformly toward all of a particular national origin are such.
- sachislife 3y ago
  > What is the obligation for America, or Americans, to host intra-South Asian arguments and their arguers? Its almost as if American citizens of South Asian origins don't exist. How can people of South Asian origin even be Americans? Am I right?
serial_dev 3y ago
It may sound like that, but let's assume positive intentions. This person might wanted to point out that the people who argue about the bill (which is certainly not 1.5B people), can't escape from and leave behind their mental prison of casteism, and they import a new form of racism into the US, which is not ideal.
- belltaco 3y ago
  I mean they're openly advocating deporting them for legal free speech, not even a dog whistle. I would imagine a good chunk are US citizens. While not fully understanding all the nuances.
- sachislife 3y ago
  > but let's assume positive intentions. This TMWNN person is literally saying this about this entire matter >> When children get into a fight, adults intervene by separating the combatants and sending them home regardless of who is "right" They actually see themselves as the "adult" and this matter as a children's fight even though its been ongoing for several hundred years prior to Columbus ever set sail to find India and accidentally found TMWNN's america. And as the other commenter noted, this person has also argued in favor of deportation and blanket censorship on discussing caste matters. I don't think its fair to continue assuming postive intentions at this point. If not racist, they are extremely condescending at the very least.
the_third_wave 3y ago
You're assuming that all of those 1.5 billion people support the caste system simply because they come from India. This type of generalisation used to be the basis for the definition of the term "racism" before it got coopted by identity politics: "racism, also called racialism, the belief that humans may be divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races”; that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural and behavioural features" (Encyclopedia Britannica; emphasis mine) I assume the original poster means to keep out the discussion of the caste system by keeping out its supporters. Disregarding the feasibility of such a plan [1] it does put this proposal in a different light: keeping out supporters of a system or ideology which divides people based on unalienable characteristics is something which those who claim to be against racism should welcome. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-about-caste/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-ab... shows that support for the caste system is less prevalent among higher educated Indians who are more likely to immigrate based on employment opportunities so in that respect it would be feasible. Given this fact a rule to keep out caste supporters could be easily construed as an attempt to keep out less educated people by those seeking to weaponise identity for political purposes.

TMWNN 3y ago

>Land of free speech indeed. Yes, and I want to keep it that way. I ask again: What is the obligation for America, or Americans, to host intra-South Asian arguments and their arguers? Arguments that do not, in theory, involve any non-South Asians whatsoever? Is the only allowed outcome one in which the number and volume of said arguments hosted by America increase? As I said: >Like all immigrants Indians should be evaluated on their potential to contribute to the US in positive and negative ways. There is no inherent right for South Asians to enter the US other than on the US government and its people's sufferance of same. If Americans decide that the disadvantages from the presence of South Asians (or Kenyans, or Danish, or Guatemalans, or New Zealanders) exceed the advantages, there can and should be consequences regarding immigration, visa, and naturalization laws. What should not happen is to preemptively squelch any efforts toward determining this as "blanket racism", any more than existing laws that apply uniformly toward all of a particular national origin are such.

sachislife 3y ago
> What is the obligation for America, or Americans, to host intra-South Asian arguments and their arguers? Its almost as if American citizens of South Asian origins don't exist. How can people of South Asian origin even be Americans? Am I right?

serial_dev 3y ago

It may sound like that, but let's assume positive intentions. This person might wanted to point out that the people who argue about the bill (which is certainly not 1.5B people), can't escape from and leave behind their mental prison of casteism, and they import a new form of racism into the US, which is not ideal.

belltaco 3y ago
I mean they're openly advocating deporting them for legal free speech, not even a dog whistle. I would imagine a good chunk are US citizens. While not fully understanding all the nuances.
sachislife 3y ago
> but let's assume positive intentions. This TMWNN person is literally saying this about this entire matter >> When children get into a fight, adults intervene by separating the combatants and sending them home regardless of who is "right" They actually see themselves as the "adult" and this matter as a children's fight even though its been ongoing for several hundred years prior to Columbus ever set sail to find India and accidentally found TMWNN's america. And as the other commenter noted, this person has also argued in favor of deportation and blanket censorship on discussing caste matters. I don't think its fair to continue assuming postive intentions at this point. If not racist, they are extremely condescending at the very least.

the_third_wave 3y ago

You're assuming that all of those 1.5 billion people support the caste system simply because they come from India. This type of generalisation used to be the basis for the definition of the term "racism" before it got coopted by identity politics: "racism, also called racialism, the belief that humans may be divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races”; that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural and behavioural features" (Encyclopedia Britannica; emphasis mine) I assume the original poster means to keep out the discussion of the caste system by keeping out its supporters. Disregarding the feasibility of such a plan [1] it does put this proposal in a different light: keeping out supporters of a system or ideology which divides people based on unalienable characteristics is something which those who claim to be against racism should welcome. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-about-caste/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-ab... shows that support for the caste system is less prevalent among higher educated Indians who are more likely to immigrate based on employment opportunities so in that respect it would be feasible. Given this fact a rule to keep out caste supporters could be easily construed as an attempt to keep out less educated people by those seeking to weaponise identity for political purposes.