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A friend of mine was taught True Basic for a middle school programming class, and he really disliked that class (middle school is grades 6-8, for students about

A friend of mine was taught True Basic for a middle school programming class, and he really disliked that class (middle school is grades 6-8, for students about 11-14 years old). The next year they switched to teaching Python, and that frustrated him, because he thinks he would have maybe liked the class more with an easier programming language like that. This was in the early 2010s. On the other hand, it's not like he ever pursued Python or any other programming language outside of class anytime after that, so it could he that he just wouldn't have liked programming anyway. That's not to say True Basic is bad or anything. Some people tear their hair out over coding in C but enjoy other languages. It's just what came to mind for me when I read "True Basic".

bruce511 3y ago
When I was young, and I enjoyed learning to program, I thought everyone could learn to program, and they would enjoy it. Many decades later I've come to understand that programming is an intrinsically shitty job [1] which can only be done well by people who really love doing it. You cannot force people to learn programming. You can offer opportunity, but those that enjoy it will enjoy it. The language is irrelevant - joy trumps difficulty. This is true for so many well-paid jobs. Smart kids get pushed into medicine, but good doctors are those that like being around sick people (and making them better). Sure it pays well, but often that's a sign that its a shitty job with a high skill level, and high societal value. I'd still be programming even if I didn't get paid. It gets my motor running. But I understand now that its not for everyone. [1] go on, describe your job to a middle schooler. Hours behind a desk, staring at a screen, spending hours to find out what a comma should have been a period... it's their very definition of a nightmare.
- janwillemb 3y ago
  It is the creativity of making new stuff that is the fun of programming. That should outweigh the shittyness described.
  - bruce511 3y ago
    You think that, I think that, and it's the tiny bits of creativity that delight me. But most of my job is not creative. Writing another json interface to some random API is not creative. Very, very, seldom is my creativity visible to others, and in more than a few cases the creativity works against the project in the long run. But I love it anyway... :)
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    No company allows you to be creative.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  My mom was an accountant, and I used to think that would be hell, just sitting in excel all day, tabulating endless columns of numbers... But really someone else must say exactly the same thing about my fully engrossing coding or sysadminning. For me it's building castles and engines, but to someone else it's just "sitting in front of an editor all day"

bruce511 3y ago

When I was young, and I enjoyed learning to program, I thought everyone could learn to program, and they would enjoy it. Many decades later I've come to understand that programming is an intrinsically shitty job [1] which can only be done well by people who really love doing it. You cannot force people to learn programming. You can offer opportunity, but those that enjoy it will enjoy it. The language is irrelevant - joy trumps difficulty. This is true for so many well-paid jobs. Smart kids get pushed into medicine, but good doctors are those that like being around sick people (and making them better). Sure it pays well, but often that's a sign that its a shitty job with a high skill level, and high societal value. I'd still be programming even if I didn't get paid. It gets my motor running. But I understand now that its not for everyone. [1] go on, describe your job to a middle schooler. Hours behind a desk, staring at a screen, spending hours to find out what a comma should have been a period... it's their very definition of a nightmare.

janwillemb 3y ago
It is the creativity of making new stuff that is the fun of programming. That should outweigh the shittyness described.
- bruce511 3y ago
  You think that, I think that, and it's the tiny bits of creativity that delight me. But most of my job is not creative. Writing another json interface to some random API is not creative. Very, very, seldom is my creativity visible to others, and in more than a few cases the creativity works against the project in the long run. But I love it anyway... :)
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  No company allows you to be creative.
Brian_K_White 3y ago
My mom was an accountant, and I used to think that would be hell, just sitting in excel all day, tabulating endless columns of numbers... But really someone else must say exactly the same thing about my fully engrossing coding or sysadminning. For me it's building castles and engines, but to someone else it's just "sitting in front of an editor all day"