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> I’m pretty sure that no kid has thought to themselves “I wish my parents had a bunch of unstable relationships with many different people.” You're begging th

> I’m pretty sure that no kid has thought to themselves “I wish my parents had a bunch of unstable relationships with many different people.” You're begging the question. Polyamory doesn't imply instability any more than monogomy does. I know people who have been in decades-long poly relationship. What I do see happen often in poly and poly-adjacent communities, especially those with children, is that children become a more communal responsibility, somewhat mimicking the effect of larger, multi-generational households you see in Asian and Hispanic communities, which usually leads to higher stability and better outcomes.

sarchertech 3y ago
>You're begging the question. Polyamory doesn't imply instability any more than monogomy does. I know people who have been in decades-long poly relationship. It’s doesn’t logically imply it. But statistically they are much more unstable. There’s studies that show 90+% of open marriages end in divorce.
- joshuamorton 3y ago
  Sort of, maybe, probably not. The study you're citing doesn't actually have a methodology that one can interrogate about how it reached this figure, and there's some fairly common patterns like opening a marriage in response to infidelity, that would create a misleading correlation between open marriages and unstable ones. That's vastly different from entering into a relationship with the intent to be non-monogamous (and perhaps already having multiple partners), but is probably much more common, because, for whatever reason there's less of a taboo on sleeping around while married than on having multiple committed romantic relationships.
  - lazide 3y ago
    There is also, you know, just paying attention and drawing our own judgements from what we see with our own eyes. Not that normal marriages are sunshine and rainbows. But I have yet to see a poly marriage with kids that wasn’t deeply disturbing. Though of course the primary folks said everything was fine.
  - sarchertech 3y ago
    That’s entirely possible. It’s also entirely possible that something about starting a relationship monogamously and then transitioning has some kind of protective effect vs starting poly. We don’t have enough data to tease out the cause. We can only say that open marriages, for whatever reason, are less stable than closed ones.
rayiner 3y ago
Asian and Hispanic families are built around nuclear families (more strongly than even in the west). In my language, we have a whole set of words you don’t have in English for identifying relatives through marital relationships. (E.g. different words for maternal aunts versus paternal aunts.) It’s all highly structured around the assumption that marital relationships are durable.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  Your conclusion here doesn’t follow from the premise - when two families or clans are marrying each other the result is not a nuclear family.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    It’s not just a nuclear family, but the nuclear family is still the foundation of the larger structure. Everyone is precisely situated in relation to durable marital bonds between two specific people. It’s not some free for all. Yeah, the cousins all play together and the aunties cook dinner together, but there’s no ambiguity or imprecision about who is married to whom. Asian multi-generational family structures are often invoked to justify fatherless children raised “by the community,” etc., and it drives me nuts. There is nothing liberal about us—we have some of the most rigid marriage norms and gender roles around.
- joshuamorton 3y ago
  > It’s all highly structured around the assumption that marital relationships are durable. You're again begging the question! Non-nuclear doesn't imply non-durable!

sarchertech 3y ago

>You're begging the question. Polyamory doesn't imply instability any more than monogomy does. I know people who have been in decades-long poly relationship. It’s doesn’t logically imply it. But statistically they are much more unstable. There’s studies that show 90+% of open marriages end in divorce.

joshuamorton 3y ago
Sort of, maybe, probably not. The study you're citing doesn't actually have a methodology that one can interrogate about how it reached this figure, and there's some fairly common patterns like opening a marriage in response to infidelity, that would create a misleading correlation between open marriages and unstable ones. That's vastly different from entering into a relationship with the intent to be non-monogamous (and perhaps already having multiple partners), but is probably much more common, because, for whatever reason there's less of a taboo on sleeping around while married than on having multiple committed romantic relationships.
- lazide 3y ago
  There is also, you know, just paying attention and drawing our own judgements from what we see with our own eyes. Not that normal marriages are sunshine and rainbows. But I have yet to see a poly marriage with kids that wasn’t deeply disturbing. Though of course the primary folks said everything was fine.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  That’s entirely possible. It’s also entirely possible that something about starting a relationship monogamously and then transitioning has some kind of protective effect vs starting poly. We don’t have enough data to tease out the cause. We can only say that open marriages, for whatever reason, are less stable than closed ones.

rayiner 3y ago

Asian and Hispanic families are built around nuclear families (more strongly than even in the west). In my language, we have a whole set of words you don’t have in English for identifying relatives through marital relationships. (E.g. different words for maternal aunts versus paternal aunts.) It’s all highly structured around the assumption that marital relationships are durable.

selimthegrim 3y ago
Your conclusion here doesn’t follow from the premise - when two families or clans are marrying each other the result is not a nuclear family.
- rayiner 3y ago
  It’s not just a nuclear family, but the nuclear family is still the foundation of the larger structure. Everyone is precisely situated in relation to durable marital bonds between two specific people. It’s not some free for all. Yeah, the cousins all play together and the aunties cook dinner together, but there’s no ambiguity or imprecision about who is married to whom. Asian multi-generational family structures are often invoked to justify fatherless children raised “by the community,” etc., and it drives me nuts. There is nothing liberal about us—we have some of the most rigid marriage norms and gender roles around.
joshuamorton 3y ago
> It’s all highly structured around the assumption that marital relationships are durable. You're again begging the question! Non-nuclear doesn't imply non-durable!