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I see two solutions to the conundrum. At one company where I previously worked, they required that employees receive 2x the time off, if you had to fix or work

I see two solutions to the conundrum. At one company where I previously worked, they required that employees receive 2x the time off, if you had to fix or work on anything during off-hours. Another company I’ve been at is pretty strict about not shipping things until they’re ready (but, that company doesn’t hire juniors in engineering). Pick your poison. The fact is that no engineer wants to get paged. But we have to be responsible for our work and our mistakes. That said, I think it’s well understood, the dynamic of pushing rushed work. To which end, you have to construct a system where e.g. product is incentivized to align with engineering on some minimum level of reliability.

kelnos 3y ago
Sure, and "constructing that system" should mean paying your employees for non-work-hours work. And even if I never get paged, if I need to be within 15 minutes of a computer with an internet connection at all times, that is going to drastically limit what I can do with my free time. I should be compensated for that. One company I worked at didn't have a formal policy of giving people time off if they got paged, but most/all managers would allow for it. That's nice, I guess, but to me still doesn't cover it. Even if the pager never goes off, the employee has made their off-hours worse (that is, not really off-hours anymore) in order to give the company value. Not compensating them for that is unethical. Just to specifically address one bit: > But we have to be responsible for our work and our mistakes. Absolutely agree. But if you want me to be responsible for my work outside of regular work hours, I expect to be compensated for my time. Also consider that I'm being asked to be responsible for my teammates' work as well; while I do have some influence over the quality of their work, it's far from sufficient to guarantee their work is equivalent in quality to mine (and vice versa).
- karmakaze 3y ago
  This is an excellent point. I do recall that did on occasion alter my plans, inappropriately bring my laptop to functions, or limit my alcohol consumption for the evening just-in-case. Fortunately we were given generous on-call compensation even when not paged.
- UtopiaPunk 3y ago
  Agreed! I don't work at a job that requires on-call hours, but I do have to sit in front of a computer 40 hours a week. My job is fine, but I can enthusiastically say that when I am off work, I want to be far away from my computer. If I were looking at a job offer that required on-call time, it would have come with well defined time periods and extra pay.

kelnos 3y ago

Sure, and "constructing that system" should mean paying your employees for non-work-hours work. And even if I never get paged, if I need to be within 15 minutes of a computer with an internet connection at all times, that is going to drastically limit what I can do with my free time. I should be compensated for that. One company I worked at didn't have a formal policy of giving people time off if they got paged, but most/all managers would allow for it. That's nice, I guess, but to me still doesn't cover it. Even if the pager never goes off, the employee has made their off-hours worse (that is, not really off-hours anymore) in order to give the company value. Not compensating them for that is unethical. Just to specifically address one bit: > But we have to be responsible for our work and our mistakes. Absolutely agree. But if you want me to be responsible for my work outside of regular work hours, I expect to be compensated for my time. Also consider that I'm being asked to be responsible for my teammates' work as well; while I do have some influence over the quality of their work, it's far from sufficient to guarantee their work is equivalent in quality to mine (and vice versa).

karmakaze 3y ago
This is an excellent point. I do recall that did on occasion alter my plans, inappropriately bring my laptop to functions, or limit my alcohol consumption for the evening just-in-case. Fortunately we were given generous on-call compensation even when not paged.
UtopiaPunk 3y ago
Agreed! I don't work at a job that requires on-call hours, but I do have to sit in front of a computer 40 hours a week. My job is fine, but I can enthusiastically say that when I am off work, I want to be far away from my computer. If I were looking at a job offer that required on-call time, it would have come with well defined time periods and extra pay.