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I agree if on call is being triggered regularly. I strongly disagree if events that would trigger on call happen rarely (e.g. once per year). Many companies h

by cj 3y ago

I agree if on call is being triggered regularly. I strongly disagree if events that would trigger on call happen rarely (e.g. once per year). Many companies have stable infrastructure but just need the extremely occasional coverage for things that rarely, if ever, happen. I’ve seen people overreact when on call has been introduced, probably from negative experiences at prior jobs. As long as the on call events happen once in a blue moon, I don’t see why anyone would have a major problem with it.

kelnos 3y ago
That doesn't matter at all to the base rate. Bottom line is that you don't know when that once-in-a-blue-moon page is going to happen, so you still have to curtail your leisure activities in order to be ready. Want to go see a movie? Want to go for a long drive? Want to go on a hike? Want to take your kids (who are young enough to need constant supervision) out somewhere? Want to go anywhere where you don't have cell service? Nope, can't do it. If the company wants me to change how I would otherwise spend my leisure time, they need to pay me for it. So sure, a company fitting your description would only rarely pay out the elevated rate for someone actively handling an incident, but since an employee still has to do the exact same things when not handling an incident (regardless of how often incidents arise), the base rate needs to be there.
scarecrowbob 3y ago
Well, consider that "once in a blue moon" might actually be worse given that a) it is not predictable and b) likely to be less compensated. Like, it doesn't matter if something almost never happens because I'd be "on call" regardless- that ---is--- what it means to be on call. I did that for many years and it didn't matter so much when my kids were little and I didn't want to, like, go to a rave off the grid or perform music over a weekend or go climbing in BFE Utah. But I quit a job that I'd had for almost 10 years because of that fact of the work. After a while it's a really bullshit thing to do to folks. It doesn't matter if I never get called- I still have to be available and that really is something people need to be compensated for.
nwallin 3y ago
The problem with being on-call isn't that you're working, the problem with being on-call is that you aren't not working. You can't be on-call and go to a place you're not allowed to have your cell phone on. You can't be on-call and drink alcohol. (or other substances of various legalities) You can't be on-call and go camping in a wilderness location that may not have cell coverage. Depending on the circumstances, you may need to lug your work laptop around in your backpack.

by cj 3y ago

kelnos 3y ago

That doesn't matter at all to the base rate. Bottom line is that you don't know when that once-in-a-blue-moon page is going to happen, so you still have to curtail your leisure activities in order to be ready. Want to go see a movie? Want to go for a long drive? Want to go on a hike? Want to take your kids (who are young enough to need constant supervision) out somewhere? Want to go anywhere where you don't have cell service? Nope, can't do it. If the company wants me to change how I would otherwise spend my leisure time, they need to pay me for it. So sure, a company fitting your description would only rarely pay out the elevated rate for someone actively handling an incident, but since an employee still has to do the exact same things when not handling an incident (regardless of how often incidents arise), the base rate needs to be there.

scarecrowbob 3y ago

Well, consider that "once in a blue moon" might actually be worse given that a) it is not predictable and b) likely to be less compensated. Like, it doesn't matter if something almost never happens because I'd be "on call" regardless- that ---is--- what it means to be on call. I did that for many years and it didn't matter so much when my kids were little and I didn't want to, like, go to a rave off the grid or perform music over a weekend or go climbing in BFE Utah. But I quit a job that I'd had for almost 10 years because of that fact of the work. After a while it's a really bullshit thing to do to folks. It doesn't matter if I never get called- I still have to be available and that really is something people need to be compensated for.

nwallin 3y ago

The problem with being on-call isn't that you're working, the problem with being on-call is that you aren't not working. You can't be on-call and go to a place you're not allowed to have your cell phone on. You can't be on-call and drink alcohol. (or other substances of various legalities) You can't be on-call and go camping in a wilderness location that may not have cell coverage. Depending on the circumstances, you may need to lug your work laptop around in your backpack.