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Like I've said many times, until regulation mitigates the enshittification of vehicles, you will have to pry my dumbcar from my cold dead hands. You want me to

Like I've said many times, until regulation mitigates the enshittification of vehicles, you will have to pry my dumbcar from my cold dead hands. You want me to buy an electric vehicle? Don't pull shenanigans that disempower me.

jgalt212 3y ago
I really do miss physical keys. Replacement cost for an Audi key fob is over $700. And it extends to broader market brands. My mom's Mazda replacement fob cost $500. WTF is going on here?
- zdragnar 3y ago
  That's the cost for integration with the immobilizer. Car keys and fobs have chips that signal to the onboard computer, and may use a variety of techniques such as rolling codes to make the cars harder to steal. Gone are the days when you can easily hotwire a car by yanking and touching random wires together from the steering column. Kia and Hyundai are among the last brands to be selling cars without them, and that's the reason they've been targeted so heavily by car thieves. If you have one key and lost one, you can use the one you have to more easily reprogram the other. However, if you have lost all of your keys, a technician needs physical access to your car to reprogram everything together. Add on top of that the licensing cost for the software to do the programming (you don't want random people having easy access to reprogramming your locks after all) . Reprogramming keys is a fairly low-volume sale, especially if you need access to the car to do it (hard to scale volume remotely) so the per-key cost is much higher as a result.
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    Surely the BOM on the fobs is at most tens of dollars. Hard to see a $700 cost justifiable as anything but greed against a captive audience.
- skullone 3y ago
  Would you rather the keys be $5 from Walmart and pair with the car without needing an OEM programmer?
  - jgalt212 3y ago
    I'd be fine if they offered the same security as house keys.
    - DANmode 3y ago
      You can't put your house intonneutral and roll it onto a trailer silently with a set of housekeys.
      - jgalt212 3y ago
        fair enough, but I'd argue that p * (cost of theft via roll onto trailer) << $700 p = probability of roll onto trailer theft
cypress66 3y ago
Enshittification is subscriptions, software locked features, telemetry and always online systems, and so on. Using these casts, regardless of how good or bad they are, is not enshittification.
- ravenstine 3y ago
  If I owned a Toyota and wanted to buy another Toyota in the future, except Toyota only now makes cars that serve me less than my old one, that's absolutely enshittification. Who said the term is restricted to software?
  - cypress66 3y ago
    Because enshittification has a specific meaning. It's really about online services that start being "too good", possibly operating at a loss to gain users. And after they have enough users that are "locked in", they start to get worse to extract more profit from the existing users. The car examples I gave is already pushing it. But if the new Toyota is worse than yours it's not really enshittification because your car still works just as well, and you're not locked into buying another Toyota next time. That's just them cheaping out.

jgalt212 3y ago

I really do miss physical keys. Replacement cost for an Audi key fob is over $700. And it extends to broader market brands. My mom's Mazda replacement fob cost $500. WTF is going on here?

zdragnar 3y ago
That's the cost for integration with the immobilizer. Car keys and fobs have chips that signal to the onboard computer, and may use a variety of techniques such as rolling codes to make the cars harder to steal. Gone are the days when you can easily hotwire a car by yanking and touching random wires together from the steering column. Kia and Hyundai are among the last brands to be selling cars without them, and that's the reason they've been targeted so heavily by car thieves. If you have one key and lost one, you can use the one you have to more easily reprogram the other. However, if you have lost all of your keys, a technician needs physical access to your car to reprogram everything together. Add on top of that the licensing cost for the software to do the programming (you don't want random people having easy access to reprogramming your locks after all) . Reprogramming keys is a fairly low-volume sale, especially if you need access to the car to do it (hard to scale volume remotely) so the per-key cost is much higher as a result.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  Surely the BOM on the fobs is at most tens of dollars. Hard to see a $700 cost justifiable as anything but greed against a captive audience.
skullone 3y ago
Would you rather the keys be $5 from Walmart and pair with the car without needing an OEM programmer?
- jgalt212 3y ago
  I'd be fine if they offered the same security as house keys.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    You can't put your house intonneutral and roll it onto a trailer silently with a set of housekeys.
    - jgalt212 3y ago
      fair enough, but I'd argue that p * (cost of theft via roll onto trailer) << $700 p = probability of roll onto trailer theft

cypress66 3y ago

Enshittification is subscriptions, software locked features, telemetry and always online systems, and so on. Using these casts, regardless of how good or bad they are, is not enshittification.

ravenstine 3y ago
If I owned a Toyota and wanted to buy another Toyota in the future, except Toyota only now makes cars that serve me less than my old one, that's absolutely enshittification. Who said the term is restricted to software?
- cypress66 3y ago
  Because enshittification has a specific meaning. It's really about online services that start being "too good", possibly operating at a loss to gain users. And after they have enough users that are "locked in", they start to get worse to extract more profit from the existing users. The car examples I gave is already pushing it. But if the new Toyota is worse than yours it's not really enshittification because your car still works just as well, and you're not locked into buying another Toyota next time. That's just them cheaping out.