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Because what you are describing is literally what happens in all situations for everything, it shouldn't even factor into success. It's a given that to be succ

Because what you are describing is literally what happens in all situations for everything, it shouldn't even factor into success. It's a given that to be successful, there are external entities involved (infrastructure, people). I suppose if you get a PHD, you should be thanking the factory worker that was responsible for the paper in your diploma. Should you also thank Bill Gates for providing the operating system and software that allowed you to write your thesis? Instead, it's being used as a tactic to cut down anyone that is successful (you didn't earn that success, it was the people around you). If success were that easy, everyone would be successful..but this just isn't reality.

apsurd 3y ago
Thank the factory worker for the paper and Bill Gates for the OS sounds like a lovely idea! Marie Kondo vibes. I agree "success is not your own" can be weaponized, but also let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. The paper - and this humanity team we are on - did help!
SoftTalker 3y ago
My father thanked the typist who prepared the final copy of his PhD thesis.
EGG_CREAM 3y ago
People hear what they want to, to be honest. Most of the time, in my experience, people aren't trying to "cut down" successful people, they are just trying to show that it wasn't all skill and good decisions. Its a response to the idea that people who are successful, and especially those with financial success, are somehow morally superior to those who are less successful. This idea is pervasive, at least in the USA, and that's the context people are usually coming from when they talk about the externalities that lead to success. And honestly, if successful people don't recognize the luck that also went into their success, they become delusional.
- AussieWog93 3y ago
  There's definitely a subset of people who have achieved nothing in their life, and instead of changing simply resent others who've done something. Invariably, these people spend more time in online communities like Reddit and come to dominate the conversation there. They also (surprise, surprise) congregate in low skilled jobs where you can phone it in a bit. Depending on your circles, you might not come across them much, but they are absolutely everywhere.
  - EGG_CREAM 3y ago
    Most of what you've said is nonsense that capitalists feed the middle and lower classes to keep them fighting eachother. The "low skill" jobs are generally the ones you can't phone it in as much, because there's actual work to be done at all times. I say that having worked in many different environments, from gas stations to a large cap tech company. The cashiers at the gas station were at least as busy and hardworking as any devs I ever worked with, and both are much, much harder working than basically anybody with an MBA, who are generally the people most likely to talk about how they are "self-made."
    - eleumik 3y ago
      I agree and would add that in my esperience people in richer countries work less than those in poorer. In the Netherlands people work less than in Italy, in Italy people work less than in Morocco. This happens because in richer countries they are relatively more efficient.
- eleumik 3y ago
  Financial success --> morally superior. Reminds me calvinism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic
koonsolo 3y ago
I was once at a conference with multiple game developers. My background is that I learned myself programming at a young age. I was also good at school so I completed a Masters degree in CS. Another guy in the group was also a game developer, but never studied further. Someone labeled this person as a "self-made man". Which I found weird at the time, because I also put in the "self-made" work to get my Masters degree. It's basically a concept of whatever you want to make of it. If people enjoy labeling themselves or others as "self-made", I have no problem with that. For me it holds no value at all. And for Arnold, it feels offensive because he realizes he wouldn't have the success without the support he got from the people around him. Every success is made up of a part that you did, and a part that others did. And the part that others did will always be way bigger than your part. Shoulders of giants and all that.

apsurd 3y ago

Thank the factory worker for the paper and Bill Gates for the OS sounds like a lovely idea! Marie Kondo vibes. I agree "success is not your own" can be weaponized, but also let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. The paper - and this humanity team we are on - did help!

SoftTalker 3y ago

My father thanked the typist who prepared the final copy of his PhD thesis.

EGG_CREAM 3y ago

People hear what they want to, to be honest. Most of the time, in my experience, people aren't trying to "cut down" successful people, they are just trying to show that it wasn't all skill and good decisions. Its a response to the idea that people who are successful, and especially those with financial success, are somehow morally superior to those who are less successful. This idea is pervasive, at least in the USA, and that's the context people are usually coming from when they talk about the externalities that lead to success. And honestly, if successful people don't recognize the luck that also went into their success, they become delusional.

AussieWog93 3y ago
There's definitely a subset of people who have achieved nothing in their life, and instead of changing simply resent others who've done something. Invariably, these people spend more time in online communities like Reddit and come to dominate the conversation there. They also (surprise, surprise) congregate in low skilled jobs where you can phone it in a bit. Depending on your circles, you might not come across them much, but they are absolutely everywhere.
- EGG_CREAM 3y ago
  Most of what you've said is nonsense that capitalists feed the middle and lower classes to keep them fighting eachother. The "low skill" jobs are generally the ones you can't phone it in as much, because there's actual work to be done at all times. I say that having worked in many different environments, from gas stations to a large cap tech company. The cashiers at the gas station were at least as busy and hardworking as any devs I ever worked with, and both are much, much harder working than basically anybody with an MBA, who are generally the people most likely to talk about how they are "self-made."
  - eleumik 3y ago
    I agree and would add that in my esperience people in richer countries work less than those in poorer. In the Netherlands people work less than in Italy, in Italy people work less than in Morocco. This happens because in richer countries they are relatively more efficient.
eleumik 3y ago
Financial success --> morally superior. Reminds me calvinism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

koonsolo 3y ago

I was once at a conference with multiple game developers. My background is that I learned myself programming at a young age. I was also good at school so I completed a Masters degree in CS. Another guy in the group was also a game developer, but never studied further. Someone labeled this person as a "self-made man". Which I found weird at the time, because I also put in the "self-made" work to get my Masters degree. It's basically a concept of whatever you want to make of it. If people enjoy labeling themselves or others as "self-made", I have no problem with that. For me it holds no value at all. And for Arnold, it feels offensive because he realizes he wouldn't have the success without the support he got from the people around him. Every success is made up of a part that you did, and a part that others did. And the part that others did will always be way bigger than your part. Shoulders of giants and all that.