4 ms·

Researchers find link between plastic additive and autism, ADHD

93 points by kungfudoi 3y ago

carmenjudson149 3y ago
Interesting study, indeed! The link between BPA exposure and neurodevelopmental disorders could pave the way for vital preventive measures.
- cebert 3y ago
  Interesting, how do you believe this very preliminary study suggesting there may be a correlation paves this way?
- dathinab 3y ago
  unlikely it's not in any way implying that BPA exposure is causing neurodivergentnl disorders so it's more like if you, through unrelated reasons have autism, you are also more likely to be worse at handling BPA in general there is strong indication that autism is largely related to genes also science is increasingly moving away from calling it a disorder, it seems to be more like a natural variation instead. A variation which happens to be not very compatible with modern society and therefore often comes hand in hand with disorders like e.g. anxiety disorders caused by the friction modern society exposes on them. I mean think about a societyb strictly build for people at most 1.60m in height but you are 2.20m, you likely would have all kinds of mental and physical issues from the fact that everything in the world isn't compatible with your body size.
  - bjourne 3y ago
    Afaik, latest research indicate strong links between the prenatal environment and autism.
    - dathinab 3y ago
      which interestingly doesn't exclude it being a natural variant nor genetic predisposition playing a relevant role
miduil 3y ago
> [...] Future studies with stricter inclusion criteria are required to confirm the present findings. This is a small study that doesn't earn such a big subject line. > BPA is about 10 percent less than that of control children. For a significant proportion of children with ADHD, it’s about 17 percent less. The percentages are confusing me, BPA intake can vary greatly - if there was a stronger link shouldn't this be much obvious just in folks with higher BPA exposure? Also there are bunch of metabolic conditions/disorders linked with autism already. I don't understand what you would learn from such research other than "more research needed", certainly not what the headline implies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism#Metabolic_disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism#Metabolic_dis...
- timmb 3y ago
  > The percentages are confusing me, BPA intake can vary greatly - if there was a stronger link shouldn't this be much obvious just in folks with higher BPA exposure? Presumably it’s much easier to measure someone’s ability to eliminate BPA from the bloodstream than it is to calculate how much they consumed in uteri and throughout their life.
- cma 3y ago
  The linked metabolic conditions could be linked because of trouble clearing BPA, if it were shown causative and they were just linked without direct causation (not saying it has shown that).
- sumthingsumthng 3y ago
  if continued, the study will result in something like "BPA intake amplifies ASD, ADHD, ..." At least _some_ humans with "ADHD" and "ASD" (and many others) are highly sensitive. This includes their bodies and brains - and subconsciousness.
h0l0cube 3y ago
No causal mechanism is provided > The study showed that for a significant proportion of children with autism, the ability to add the glucose molecule to BPA is about 10 percent less than that of control children. For a significant proportion of children with ADHD, it’s about 17 percent less.
- sumthingsumthng 3y ago
  Say there is no causation, how to proof "amplification" of "symptoms"?
crzyman 3y ago
Fearmongering clickbait title. Should be "positive correlation found between ADHD/ASD diagnoses and inhibited metabolism of BPA". The trick is that ADHD and ASD are already known to be genetic. So it's way more likely that the genetic variation that contributes to ADHD/ASD coincidentally also contributes to a reduction in our ability to metabolize BPA. Not that BPA causes ADHD/ASD.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
greenyoda 3y ago
The illustration at the top of the article shows plastic drink bottles, which are unlikely to contain BPA. According to Wikipedia, the most likely BPA sources in the food supply would be from the linings of metal cans: > As a result of the presence of BPA in plastics and other commonplace materials, most people are frequently exposed to trace levels of BPA. The primary source of human exposure is via food, as epoxy and PVC are used to line the inside of food cans to prevent corrosion of the metal by acidic foodstuffs. Polycarbonate drinks containers are also a source of exposure, although most disposable drinks bottles are actually made of PET, which contains no BPA.[1] Polycarbonates are the rigid plastics like the ones used in reusable water bottles, but many such bottles are now BPA-free. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#Exposure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#Exposure
- in3d 3y ago
  BPA substitutes are probably not any better. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6387873/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6387873/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0147651321003213 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014765132... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2115308119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2115308119 https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/many-bpa-free-plastics-are-toxic-some-are-worse-than-bpa https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/many-bpa-free-plasti...
- sumthingsumthng 3y ago
  People used to bury stuff in their gardens, e.g. Plastic & Asbestos. Imagine you bury it on a hill and a bit further down, say, 20 meters, they have a little garden with radishes and onions and potatoes and stuff and in a little greenhouse in between there are tomatoes growing. Insects are crawling all over the place and micey beings are doing their thing. There's cats and birds and stuff is happening. And it gets warmer every year and the kids and grandkids are playing and building and burning things and they love the fruits and vegetables coming out of and around this garden. Multiply this by a neighborhood. And remember, 60, 70 years ago, lefties, hippies and scientists have put effort into warning people.
ghostly_s 3y ago
A couple osteopaths and a surgeon studying molecular pathways. Seems legit.
- sumthingsumthng 3y ago
  Go read about lies and fake data in science. Then, read about efforts and successes of self-taught, passionate people. I know some scientists, I know quite a few doctors, I know engineers and other officially recognized professionals. MOST of them are objectively the worst at their jobs. Most of them Germans in Germany ...
- aeonik 3y ago
  The study's veracity notwithstanding, DOs are trained and accredited with the exact same curriculum and standards as MDs plus an additional section in Osteopathy. I don't think it's valid to use the fact that someone is an Osteopath against them. Science in general, including MD conducted research has a lot of room for improvement. They are all physicians. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
- tommiegannert 3y ago
  [dead]
faeriechangling 3y ago
I'm going to take a wild stab at a causative effect and note that both Autism and ADHD are associated with compulsive chewing and unusual dietary habits. I don't buy the BPA causes ADHD/Autism correlation direction AT ALL because where's the dose-response relationship? BPA exposure varies quite a bit in the population and this correlation is slight.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  One common coping approach for compulsive chewing which is indeed associated with ADHD (and co-morbid anxiety that's pretty common with it) is "here, wear this plastic thingy on a necklace and chew on it instead of other stuff".
go_elmo 3y ago
Adhd & autism is not a disease but likely phenotypes of genetic diversity. Want to get rid of it? Its equal to eugenics and racism, getting rid of diversity.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Or genetic susceptibility to environmental triggers. So maybe we could remove the environmental triggers.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  ADHD literally has “disorder” in the name. The prejudices people have against these diverse people are rooted in medical authorities referring to them with insulting and condescending language. We stopped calling being gay or transgender a disease or disorder because it fucks up the lives of those labelled as such. Wanting to get rid of ADHD and Autism may be eugenics, but it’s also a popular notion. What do you think happens when you tell the whole of society since these people are different, they are disordered, and need to be treated with lower expectations and given more benefits? Plenty of the disabled were killed by the Nazi’s including Autistics.
  - go_elmo 3y ago
    I agree! Homosexuality was a disease up to the 80s too!
throwaway74852 3y ago
Hi autistic here. One thing to keep in mind is that autism prevalence appears to be increasing because testing has gotten better : was 0.04% when I was a kid 30 years ago, now 2.78%. Also Asperger's was merged into ASD in 2013. Keep this in mind when reading sources like this.
- sumthingsumthng 3y ago
  Testing did not get better ... please check the design of the tests and keep in mind that most of these tests happen in/under "lab conditions".
  - Osiris 3y ago
    But doesn’t more awareness lead to more testing which results in more cases being found due to a larger population being tested?
  - throwaway74852 3y ago
    Sorry it got 69 times better or 6800% better. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html.
londons_explore 3y ago
> The study showed that for a significant proportion of children with autism, the ability to add the glucose molecule to BPA is about 10 percent less than that of control children. For a significant proportion of children with ADHD, it’s about 17 percent less. Considering the rather huge differences between someone with autism and someone without, and the presumably rather large variation in ingested dose of BPA, a 10% difference in the elimination speed of a toxin doesn't seem like the whole picture.
ImaCake 3y ago
> The incidence of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) has greatly increased over the last few decades. The reasons are largely unknown although environmental factors are believed to be important. This is a very misleading first paragraph. It’s likely that ADHD and Autism prevalence has not changed at all and it’s just cultural awareness that leads to the increased incidence. 30 years ago, most doctors believed that women could not have ADHD or Autism. So yeah, it is “environmental factors” but the environmental factor is awareness - not plastic.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Oh well I'm glad the question is so easily solved then. Perhaps you should write a paper about it?
  - ImaCake 3y ago
    People have written plenty of papers, theses, and books on this topic. You could start with the book Neurotribes which explores the history of autism in psychiatry comprehensively.
- junofan 3y ago
  > It’s likely that ADHD and Autism prevalence has not changed Any evidence? Autism risk increases with paternal age and maternal diabetes status, so I find it hard to believe that prevalence is unchanged from 30 years ago.
  - bsder 3y ago
    I really wish people wouldn't lump Autism and ADHD together. This is like lumping "cancer" all together. "Autism" isn't even a single disease just by itself. For autism, the correlation on age and diabetes status is real, but weak. The counterfactual is that autism in minority populations is growing much faster than it is in the non-minority population. The only good correlation is health care coverage and the correlation is very strong. That tends to suggest that the "increase" is mostly increased diagnosis and treatment. And, in my personal experience, "weak" ADHD is being HUGELY over diagnosed (for various reasons--some of which are non-medical) while "stronger" ADHD is being significantly underdiagnosed (because dealing with it is expensive on multiple fronts). However, note that none of these things are absolutes. Weak correlations do exist. The human organism is highly variable--some things work for some of the people some of the time. The problem is figuring out which things work for which individuals most of the time.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

93 points by kungfudoi 3y ago

Interesting study, indeed! The link between BPA exposure and neurodevelopmental disorders could pave the way for vital preventive measures.

cebert 3y ago
Interesting, how do you believe this very preliminary study suggesting there may be a correlation paves this way?
dathinab 3y ago
unlikely it's not in any way implying that BPA exposure is causing neurodivergentnl disorders so it's more like if you, through unrelated reasons have autism, you are also more likely to be worse at handling BPA in general there is strong indication that autism is largely related to genes also science is increasingly moving away from calling it a disorder, it seems to be more like a natural variation instead. A variation which happens to be not very compatible with modern society and therefore often comes hand in hand with disorders like e.g. anxiety disorders caused by the friction modern society exposes on them. I mean think about a societyb strictly build for people at most 1.60m in height but you are 2.20m, you likely would have all kinds of mental and physical issues from the fact that everything in the world isn't compatible with your body size.
- bjourne 3y ago
  Afaik, latest research indicate strong links between the prenatal environment and autism.
  - dathinab 3y ago
    which interestingly doesn't exclude it being a natural variant nor genetic predisposition playing a relevant role

miduil 3y ago

> [...] Future studies with stricter inclusion criteria are required to confirm the present findings. This is a small study that doesn't earn such a big subject line. > BPA is about 10 percent less than that of control children. For a significant proportion of children with ADHD, it’s about 17 percent less. The percentages are confusing me, BPA intake can vary greatly - if there was a stronger link shouldn't this be much obvious just in folks with higher BPA exposure? Also there are bunch of metabolic conditions/disorders linked with autism already. I don't understand what you would learn from such research other than "more research needed", certainly not what the headline implies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism#Metabolic_disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism#Metabolic_dis...

timmb 3y ago
> The percentages are confusing me, BPA intake can vary greatly - if there was a stronger link shouldn't this be much obvious just in folks with higher BPA exposure? Presumably it’s much easier to measure someone’s ability to eliminate BPA from the bloodstream than it is to calculate how much they consumed in uteri and throughout their life.
cma 3y ago
The linked metabolic conditions could be linked because of trouble clearing BPA, if it were shown causative and they were just linked without direct causation (not saying it has shown that).
sumthingsumthng 3y ago
if continued, the study will result in something like "BPA intake amplifies ASD, ADHD, ..." At least _some_ humans with "ADHD" and "ASD" (and many others) are highly sensitive. This includes their bodies and brains - and subconsciousness.

h0l0cube 3y ago

No causal mechanism is provided > The study showed that for a significant proportion of children with autism, the ability to add the glucose molecule to BPA is about 10 percent less than that of control children. For a significant proportion of children with ADHD, it’s about 17 percent less.

sumthingsumthng 3y ago
Say there is no causation, how to proof "amplification" of "symptoms"?

crzyman 3y ago

Fearmongering clickbait title. Should be "positive correlation found between ADHD/ASD diagnoses and inhibited metabolism of BPA". The trick is that ADHD and ASD are already known to be genetic. So it's way more likely that the genetic variation that contributes to ADHD/ASD coincidentally also contributes to a reduction in our ability to metabolize BPA. Not that BPA causes ADHD/ASD.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

greenyoda 3y ago

The illustration at the top of the article shows plastic drink bottles, which are unlikely to contain BPA. According to Wikipedia, the most likely BPA sources in the food supply would be from the linings of metal cans: > As a result of the presence of BPA in plastics and other commonplace materials, most people are frequently exposed to trace levels of BPA. The primary source of human exposure is via food, as epoxy and PVC are used to line the inside of food cans to prevent corrosion of the metal by acidic foodstuffs. Polycarbonate drinks containers are also a source of exposure, although most disposable drinks bottles are actually made of PET, which contains no BPA.[1] Polycarbonates are the rigid plastics like the ones used in reusable water bottles, but many such bottles are now BPA-free. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#Exposure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#Exposure

in3d 3y ago
BPA substitutes are probably not any better. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6387873/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6387873/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0147651321003213 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014765132... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2115308119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2115308119 https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/many-bpa-free-plastics-are-toxic-some-are-worse-than-bpa https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/many-bpa-free-plasti...
sumthingsumthng 3y ago
People used to bury stuff in their gardens, e.g. Plastic & Asbestos. Imagine you bury it on a hill and a bit further down, say, 20 meters, they have a little garden with radishes and onions and potatoes and stuff and in a little greenhouse in between there are tomatoes growing. Insects are crawling all over the place and micey beings are doing their thing. There's cats and birds and stuff is happening. And it gets warmer every year and the kids and grandkids are playing and building and burning things and they love the fruits and vegetables coming out of and around this garden. Multiply this by a neighborhood. And remember, 60, 70 years ago, lefties, hippies and scientists have put effort into warning people.

ghostly_s 3y ago

A couple osteopaths and a surgeon studying molecular pathways. Seems legit.

sumthingsumthng 3y ago
Go read about lies and fake data in science. Then, read about efforts and successes of self-taught, passionate people. I know some scientists, I know quite a few doctors, I know engineers and other officially recognized professionals. MOST of them are objectively the worst at their jobs. Most of them Germans in Germany ...
aeonik 3y ago
The study's veracity notwithstanding, DOs are trained and accredited with the exact same curriculum and standards as MDs plus an additional section in Osteopathy. I don't think it's valid to use the fact that someone is an Osteopath against them. Science in general, including MD conducted research has a lot of room for improvement. They are all physicians. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
tommiegannert 3y ago
[dead]

faeriechangling 3y ago

I'm going to take a wild stab at a causative effect and note that both Autism and ADHD are associated with compulsive chewing and unusual dietary habits. I don't buy the BPA causes ADHD/Autism correlation direction AT ALL because where's the dose-response relationship? BPA exposure varies quite a bit in the population and this correlation is slight.

hotnfresh 3y ago
One common coping approach for compulsive chewing which is indeed associated with ADHD (and co-morbid anxiety that's pretty common with it) is "here, wear this plastic thingy on a necklace and chew on it instead of other stuff".

go_elmo 3y ago

Adhd & autism is not a disease but likely phenotypes of genetic diversity. Want to get rid of it? Its equal to eugenics and racism, getting rid of diversity.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
anon84873628 3y ago
Or genetic susceptibility to environmental triggers. So maybe we could remove the environmental triggers.
faeriechangling 3y ago
ADHD literally has “disorder” in the name. The prejudices people have against these diverse people are rooted in medical authorities referring to them with insulting and condescending language. We stopped calling being gay or transgender a disease or disorder because it fucks up the lives of those labelled as such. Wanting to get rid of ADHD and Autism may be eugenics, but it’s also a popular notion. What do you think happens when you tell the whole of society since these people are different, they are disordered, and need to be treated with lower expectations and given more benefits? Plenty of the disabled were killed by the Nazi’s including Autistics.
- go_elmo 3y ago
  I agree! Homosexuality was a disease up to the 80s too!

throwaway74852 3y ago

Hi autistic here. One thing to keep in mind is that autism prevalence appears to be increasing because testing has gotten better : was 0.04% when I was a kid 30 years ago, now 2.78%. Also Asperger's was merged into ASD in 2013. Keep this in mind when reading sources like this.

sumthingsumthng 3y ago
Testing did not get better ... please check the design of the tests and keep in mind that most of these tests happen in/under "lab conditions".
- Osiris 3y ago
  But doesn’t more awareness lead to more testing which results in more cases being found due to a larger population being tested?
- throwaway74852 3y ago
  Sorry it got 69 times better or 6800% better. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html.

londons_explore 3y ago

> The study showed that for a significant proportion of children with autism, the ability to add the glucose molecule to BPA is about 10 percent less than that of control children. For a significant proportion of children with ADHD, it’s about 17 percent less. Considering the rather huge differences between someone with autism and someone without, and the presumably rather large variation in ingested dose of BPA, a 10% difference in the elimination speed of a toxin doesn't seem like the whole picture.

ImaCake 3y ago

> The incidence of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) has greatly increased over the last few decades. The reasons are largely unknown although environmental factors are believed to be important. This is a very misleading first paragraph. It’s likely that ADHD and Autism prevalence has not changed at all and it’s just cultural awareness that leads to the increased incidence. 30 years ago, most doctors believed that women could not have ADHD or Autism. So yeah, it is “environmental factors” but the environmental factor is awareness - not plastic.

anon84873628 3y ago
Oh well I'm glad the question is so easily solved then. Perhaps you should write a paper about it?
- ImaCake 3y ago
  People have written plenty of papers, theses, and books on this topic. You could start with the book Neurotribes which explores the history of autism in psychiatry comprehensively.
junofan 3y ago
> It’s likely that ADHD and Autism prevalence has not changed Any evidence? Autism risk increases with paternal age and maternal diabetes status, so I find it hard to believe that prevalence is unchanged from 30 years ago.
- bsder 3y ago
  I really wish people wouldn't lump Autism and ADHD together. This is like lumping "cancer" all together. "Autism" isn't even a single disease just by itself. For autism, the correlation on age and diabetes status is real, but weak. The counterfactual is that autism in minority populations is growing much faster than it is in the non-minority population. The only good correlation is health care coverage and the correlation is very strong. That tends to suggest that the "increase" is mostly increased diagnosis and treatment. And, in my personal experience, "weak" ADHD is being HUGELY over diagnosed (for various reasons--some of which are non-medical) while "stronger" ADHD is being significantly underdiagnosed (because dealing with it is expensive on multiple fronts). However, note that none of these things are absolutes. Weak correlations do exist. The human organism is highly variable--some things work for some of the people some of the time. The problem is figuring out which things work for which individuals most of the time.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]