3 ms·

Can we, like, stop killing each other for a day or two? Isnt it obvious already that war leads to an endless cycle of war? Attackers attack, defenders defend, t

Can we, like, stop killing each other for a day or two? Isnt it obvious already that war leads to an endless cycle of war? Attackers attack, defenders defend, the loser then seeks revenge, then they become the attacker, and potentially the winner, then the former winner becomes the loser seeking revenge and so on. We have like endless space to colonise yet we fight for land here on earth as if we wont all eventually become that land. And once we do we’ll never ever come back. It’s getting a bit boring to be honest.

TulliusCicero 3y ago
Unfortunately, the status quo in Israel/Palestine is pretty garbage, and practically guaranteed to lead to conflict.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  I know but i seriously wish there was a way to end all these boring primordial habits of ours and focus on stuff that matters, as a collective humanity.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    graeber & wengrow showed historical societies that moved on from domination and hierarchy even well beyond dunbar numbers and after the discovery of agriculture (earlier than previously understood) but of course they still must defend against neighbors that seek to dominate them violently and institute new hierarchies and ownership structures. if you can envision society that lives with less violence and conflict over power, you must also accept that society must similarly defend itself in various ways from those who come not to visit but to take land, homes, resources and institute their own power structures over the ones already there living in that society you envision
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    These habits may be the other side of our civilizational coin. Technological development tends to surge during wars.
  - selfhoster11 3y ago
    I don't think we can ever change as a species to that extent while still being ourselves. The instincts that sit at our core have been there for hundred thousand years or so.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
vel0city 3y ago
> We have like endless space to colonise I'll trade you a hundred acres of land on Pluto for your house. Sounds like a good trade? Let's solve the crisis. Move all the Palestinians to Venus and all the Israelis to Mars. So much land available. Problem solved! Location, location, location.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Sounds good to me. But you need to have ownership documents for it and means for transport. I’ll trade anytime.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Why should I provide your means of transport? Did the person you bought your home from provide you transport as well? You're getting so much extra land! You figure out how to make it useful. Sure seems like you don't actually want it if you need me to subsidize you by billions of dollars to use it. Maybe it's not a great deal? Maybe there's a reason why the Israelis and Palestinians are fighting over that land instead of just flying off to another planet. Not that I agree with the violence, but suggesting they just go colonize another planet instead isn't really a good answer.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      I dont know in which country you live in but in some you cant sell land without an access path. And since i cant simply walk to it you’d have to ensure that there are other means to get there. Also that’s part of the deal - cant provide it you wont get my house in return.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        OK, I'll work with the FAA to make sure you can launch your rockets no problem. Then the path is just up! Problem solved. Or I dunno, just jump really high. After all you're expecting the Palestinians or Israelis to get there on their own, it can't be that complicated right? Just colonize space, NBD. Then the path is just up! Problem solved. Sure sounds like you're valuing your house billions and billions of dollars more than the land on Pluto. But why? There's so much space to colonize! Maybe telling people to just go to space instead of fighting for a place on Earth to live isn't a great idea huh? Maybe some places are better than others to live?
rocknor 3y ago
Are you like 20? Your own country and allies have probably thrown fuel into some of these fires historically. > It’s getting a bit boring to be honest. Learn some empathy. Or next time something happens to your country I'm gonna feel the same.
IAmGraydon 3y ago
Nietzsche was right - humans, at their core, are driven by the will to power. It's the drive to manifest one's will upon the world. That drive is the cause for all wars and always has been. Sometimes someone with an extreme level of that drive makes it to the top while having control over a military, which allows them an extreme way to express their will. That's usually when wars break out. Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, Stalin, Mussolini, Jefferson Davis, King George III, Hitler, Putin and on and on. The only way this stops is if it evolves out of us. That would take many thousands of years, but I don't think there's even selection pressure for this to happen. Actually, I think it's likely the opposite and we'll never lose the trait.

TulliusCicero 3y ago

Unfortunately, the status quo in Israel/Palestine is pretty garbage, and practically guaranteed to lead to conflict.

gumballindie 3y ago
I know but i seriously wish there was a way to end all these boring primordial habits of ours and focus on stuff that matters, as a collective humanity.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  graeber & wengrow showed historical societies that moved on from domination and hierarchy even well beyond dunbar numbers and after the discovery of agriculture (earlier than previously understood) but of course they still must defend against neighbors that seek to dominate them violently and institute new hierarchies and ownership structures. if you can envision society that lives with less violence and conflict over power, you must also accept that society must similarly defend itself in various ways from those who come not to visit but to take land, homes, resources and institute their own power structures over the ones already there living in that society you envision
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  These habits may be the other side of our civilizational coin. Technological development tends to surge during wars.
- selfhoster11 3y ago
  I don't think we can ever change as a species to that extent while still being ourselves. The instincts that sit at our core have been there for hundred thousand years or so.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

vel0city 3y ago

> We have like endless space to colonise I'll trade you a hundred acres of land on Pluto for your house. Sounds like a good trade? Let's solve the crisis. Move all the Palestinians to Venus and all the Israelis to Mars. So much land available. Problem solved! Location, location, location.

gumballindie 3y ago
Sounds good to me. But you need to have ownership documents for it and means for transport. I’ll trade anytime.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Why should I provide your means of transport? Did the person you bought your home from provide you transport as well? You're getting so much extra land! You figure out how to make it useful. Sure seems like you don't actually want it if you need me to subsidize you by billions of dollars to use it. Maybe it's not a great deal? Maybe there's a reason why the Israelis and Palestinians are fighting over that land instead of just flying off to another planet. Not that I agree with the violence, but suggesting they just go colonize another planet instead isn't really a good answer.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    I dont know in which country you live in but in some you cant sell land without an access path. And since i cant simply walk to it you’d have to ensure that there are other means to get there. Also that’s part of the deal - cant provide it you wont get my house in return.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      OK, I'll work with the FAA to make sure you can launch your rockets no problem. Then the path is just up! Problem solved. Or I dunno, just jump really high. After all you're expecting the Palestinians or Israelis to get there on their own, it can't be that complicated right? Just colonize space, NBD. Then the path is just up! Problem solved. Sure sounds like you're valuing your house billions and billions of dollars more than the land on Pluto. But why? There's so much space to colonize! Maybe telling people to just go to space instead of fighting for a place on Earth to live isn't a great idea huh? Maybe some places are better than others to live?

rocknor 3y ago

Are you like 20? Your own country and allies have probably thrown fuel into some of these fires historically. > It’s getting a bit boring to be honest. Learn some empathy. Or next time something happens to your country I'm gonna feel the same.

IAmGraydon 3y ago

Nietzsche was right - humans, at their core, are driven by the will to power. It's the drive to manifest one's will upon the world. That drive is the cause for all wars and always has been. Sometimes someone with an extreme level of that drive makes it to the top while having control over a military, which allows them an extreme way to express their will. That's usually when wars break out. Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, Stalin, Mussolini, Jefferson Davis, King George III, Hitler, Putin and on and on. The only way this stops is if it evolves out of us. That would take many thousands of years, but I don't think there's even selection pressure for this to happen. Actually, I think it's likely the opposite and we'll never lose the trait.