3 ms·

Ask HN: Can the US take in all Israelis and Ukrainians to end two major wars?

2 points by amichail 3y ago

Wouldn't making all these people US citizens and having them live in the US end two major wars?

polski-g 3y ago
Why would Israelis need to flee their homeland? They can easily achieve victory.
- amichail 3y ago
  They would be able to live in peace in an amazing country.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    Why not take in all the Palestinians?
    - polski-g 3y ago
      Turn on CNN to see why not.
    - ChumpGPT 3y ago
      Not even their neighbors want them. Some how they have become a pariah in the M.E and no one wants them. Not very different than the Syrian Refugees who were being openly killed and bombed by Russia were wanted, many had to hug the border of other countries to seek refuge.
  - dave4420 3y ago
    I keep hearing about how the US has lots of gun shootings. How does it compare to Israel? Genuine question.
    - amichail 3y ago
      Each state is like a different country so it would be hard to compare.
    - tguvot 3y ago
      putting aside current "hostilities" in Israel and wave of arab-on-arab violence in Israel, it's much safer environment. Gun shootings the way they happen in US do not exist in Israel.
  - weatherlite 3y ago
    The fact is quite a few Israelis have some EU passport that allows them to work and live in the EU (around half the population came from Europe), yet you don't see half the people go to live in Europe. If Israeli people were a computer program, then yeah maybe the most efficient thing to do would be to leave to Europe and all else be damned. But people aren't computer programs. People are willing to suffer a lot for all kinds of abstract ideas like honor, religion, culture, history etc. How else would you explain Gazans will to now start this war in the first place? We are far from being a rational creature.
dave4420 3y ago
You would wipe Israel and Ukraine off the map? Israelis generally want to live in an Israeli-run Israel, and Ukrainians generally want to live in a Ukrainian-run Ukraine. Why would they move to the US and lose their national identity?
- amichail 3y ago
  Wouldn't most people love to live in the US?
  - dotcoma 3y ago
    Not me, for one.
  - coding123 3y ago
    If you look past the wealth (and wealth inequality) the US is pretty miserable. We are very lonely here. Maybe it would be good for us, but not for them.
  - weatherlite 3y ago
    Most people who are looking to immigrate would love to live in the U.S yes, but most people are not looking to immigrate. Immigrating can be quite tough and unsuitable for many people.
- amichail 3y ago
  The US allows people to keep their culture if they want to.
  - dotcoma 3y ago
    As long as they mindlessly shop like Americans ;)
  - dave4420 3y ago
    Culture is not the same thing as national identity. And as a practical matter, no, the US is very good at assimilating immigrants. (Which is usually a good thing! But in this context would be cultural genocide. Or cultural suicide on the part of the Israelis/Ukrainians.) The overwhelming majority would be monolingual English speakers and intermarrying within three generations.
orbz 3y ago
Give up having two allied nations in parts of the world with lots of US adversaries? Not to mention telling people to leave an area that has a _considerable_ cultural meaning to them? I’m sure you have great intentions in your thinking but it is wildly unreasonable.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  At least for Israel, a large part of why there are many US adversaries there, is the US support for Israel. Unlike Russia, those countries are not competing (ex-)superpowers - if they weren't getting bombed they wouldn't be "adversaries".
LinuxBender 3y ago
Wouldn't making all these people US citizens and having them live in the US end two major wars? Probably not. Many Ukrainian women and children have already fled to other countries including the US however males of conscription age 18 to 65 were required to stay and fight. I am not sure if extracting their soldiers would in itself be an act of war? Even if that invasion ends and Russia takes Ukraine, do they then move on to Poland, Finland and others? Neither Israelis nor Palestinians would leave voluntarily. They are in a century-long territorial dispute over the Holy Land. Getting into the middle of a holy war will just make it worse in my opinion. Men, women and some children are soldiers in that holy war so I am not sure who would want to be extracted nor do I have any idea what would happen. Would the war just spread to the US?
- weatherlite 3y ago
  > Neither Israelis nor Palestinians would leave voluntarily. A non zero chunk of mostly young liberals on both sides would leave to the U.S for sure if they were given a citizenship. It wouldn't end the conflict though.
glyphy177 3y ago
[dead]
coding123 3y ago
Stand your ground.
glyphy177 3y ago
[dead]
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
(In a hypothetical world where any of this made sense) If Mexico invaded the USA and Canada offered to take in all US citizens, would you move? (This is a very loose analogy; don't read too much into it)
ChumpGPT 3y ago
Until the war comes to the USA..... History has shown quiet clearly that Imperialistic Ambitions never stop until they are stopped. The way to end the War in Ukraine is to help them win. Unfortunately there will never be an end to the war in the M.E.
k310 3y ago
Until "nationalism" goes away, this is effectively impossible. Just my opinion. Some religious leaders argue for global citizenship. Infinite Improbability Machine: https://www.quora.com/What-if-Napoleon-had-a-B-52-bomber-at-Waterloo https://www.quora.com/What-if-Napoleon-had-a-B-52-bomber-at-...
Justsignedup 3y ago
Are you saying the US should take an influx of 100 million people? Let's say they would be up for it... There's no infrastructure to support that. All problems in the US would multiply. Just imagine the housing crisis if the US just added a fourth more population. Not to mention we won't have enough food. People will be starving.
selfhoster11 3y ago
In what world would this work? - people want to live in their ancestral homelands, in their own houses - lots of Americans would get pissed off, causing hostility towards the new arrivals and those that put them there - integrating tens of millions of people in a short time period would be a crazy challenge - people would decide that they don't want to move, and that they want to stay and fight. Do you deny them that right? Do you take them away by force, for those that wanted to stay? - the newly moved governments would no longer be sovereign (and if they were made sovereign by the host government donating them some land they can rule over, that would piss off the anti-immigrant brigade off even more) Those are just the logistical challenges. And there's a lot more.

2 points by amichail 3y ago

Wouldn't making all these people US citizens and having them live in the US end two major wars?

polski-g 3y ago

Why would Israelis need to flee their homeland? They can easily achieve victory.

amichail 3y ago
They would be able to live in peace in an amazing country.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  Why not take in all the Palestinians?
  - polski-g 3y ago
    Turn on CNN to see why not.
  - ChumpGPT 3y ago
    Not even their neighbors want them. Some how they have become a pariah in the M.E and no one wants them. Not very different than the Syrian Refugees who were being openly killed and bombed by Russia were wanted, many had to hug the border of other countries to seek refuge.
- dave4420 3y ago
  I keep hearing about how the US has lots of gun shootings. How does it compare to Israel? Genuine question.
  - amichail 3y ago
    Each state is like a different country so it would be hard to compare.
  - tguvot 3y ago
    putting aside current "hostilities" in Israel and wave of arab-on-arab violence in Israel, it's much safer environment. Gun shootings the way they happen in US do not exist in Israel.
- weatherlite 3y ago
  The fact is quite a few Israelis have some EU passport that allows them to work and live in the EU (around half the population came from Europe), yet you don't see half the people go to live in Europe. If Israeli people were a computer program, then yeah maybe the most efficient thing to do would be to leave to Europe and all else be damned. But people aren't computer programs. People are willing to suffer a lot for all kinds of abstract ideas like honor, religion, culture, history etc. How else would you explain Gazans will to now start this war in the first place? We are far from being a rational creature.

dave4420 3y ago

You would wipe Israel and Ukraine off the map? Israelis generally want to live in an Israeli-run Israel, and Ukrainians generally want to live in a Ukrainian-run Ukraine. Why would they move to the US and lose their national identity?

amichail 3y ago
Wouldn't most people love to live in the US?
- dotcoma 3y ago
  Not me, for one.
- coding123 3y ago
  If you look past the wealth (and wealth inequality) the US is pretty miserable. We are very lonely here. Maybe it would be good for us, but not for them.
- weatherlite 3y ago
  Most people who are looking to immigrate would love to live in the U.S yes, but most people are not looking to immigrate. Immigrating can be quite tough and unsuitable for many people.
amichail 3y ago
The US allows people to keep their culture if they want to.
- dotcoma 3y ago
  As long as they mindlessly shop like Americans ;)
- dave4420 3y ago
  Culture is not the same thing as national identity. And as a practical matter, no, the US is very good at assimilating immigrants. (Which is usually a good thing! But in this context would be cultural genocide. Or cultural suicide on the part of the Israelis/Ukrainians.) The overwhelming majority would be monolingual English speakers and intermarrying within three generations.

orbz 3y ago

Give up having two allied nations in parts of the world with lots of US adversaries? Not to mention telling people to leave an area that has a _considerable_ cultural meaning to them? I’m sure you have great intentions in your thinking but it is wildly unreasonable.

SenAnder 3y ago
At least for Israel, a large part of why there are many US adversaries there, is the US support for Israel. Unlike Russia, those countries are not competing (ex-)superpowers - if they weren't getting bombed they wouldn't be "adversaries".

LinuxBender 3y ago

Wouldn't making all these people US citizens and having them live in the US end two major wars? Probably not. Many Ukrainian women and children have already fled to other countries including the US however males of conscription age 18 to 65 were required to stay and fight. I am not sure if extracting their soldiers would in itself be an act of war? Even if that invasion ends and Russia takes Ukraine, do they then move on to Poland, Finland and others? Neither Israelis nor Palestinians would leave voluntarily. They are in a century-long territorial dispute over the Holy Land. Getting into the middle of a holy war will just make it worse in my opinion. Men, women and some children are soldiers in that holy war so I am not sure who would want to be extracted nor do I have any idea what would happen. Would the war just spread to the US?

weatherlite 3y ago
> Neither Israelis nor Palestinians would leave voluntarily. A non zero chunk of mostly young liberals on both sides would leave to the U.S for sure if they were given a citizenship. It wouldn't end the conflict though.

glyphy177 3y ago

[dead]

coding123 3y ago

Stand your ground.

glyphy177 3y ago

[dead]

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

(In a hypothetical world where any of this made sense) If Mexico invaded the USA and Canada offered to take in all US citizens, would you move? (This is a very loose analogy; don't read too much into it)

ChumpGPT 3y ago

Until the war comes to the USA..... History has shown quiet clearly that Imperialistic Ambitions never stop until they are stopped. The way to end the War in Ukraine is to help them win. Unfortunately there will never be an end to the war in the M.E.

k310 3y ago

Until "nationalism" goes away, this is effectively impossible. Just my opinion. Some religious leaders argue for global citizenship. Infinite Improbability Machine: https://www.quora.com/What-if-Napoleon-had-a-B-52-bomber-at-Waterloo https://www.quora.com/What-if-Napoleon-had-a-B-52-bomber-at-...

Justsignedup 3y ago

Are you saying the US should take an influx of 100 million people? Let's say they would be up for it... There's no infrastructure to support that. All problems in the US would multiply. Just imagine the housing crisis if the US just added a fourth more population. Not to mention we won't have enough food. People will be starving.

selfhoster11 3y ago

In what world would this work? - people want to live in their ancestral homelands, in their own houses - lots of Americans would get pissed off, causing hostility towards the new arrivals and those that put them there - integrating tens of millions of people in a short time period would be a crazy challenge - people would decide that they don't want to move, and that they want to stay and fight. Do you deny them that right? Do you take them away by force, for those that wanted to stay? - the newly moved governments would no longer be sovereign (and if they were made sovereign by the host government donating them some land they can rule over, that would piss off the anti-immigrant brigade off even more) Those are just the logistical challenges. And there's a lot more.