4 ms·

> What would Servo bring to make web a big jump forward for us users The biggest advantage would be having a memory-safe browser engine.

zo1 3y ago
As someone with almost no knowledge of Servo, and personally not having a good opinion of the Mozilla foundation, your comment tells me all I need to know why they stopped support of Servo development. Only social initiatives get feel good money to waste on nice to haves. This "Servo" thing does not sound like it.
- mdaniel 3y ago
  I want to draw one's attention to the (at this point impressive) number of CVEs related to memory issues in Chromium's C++ codebase: https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/search/label/Stable%20updates https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/search/label/Stable%20... and control-f for CVE Even granting that some of them come from dependent libraries, if the world's arguably best funded software engineering organization can't keep C++ footguns out of an application that runs untrusted code on the regular ... one may want to have a think about whether C++ is the best tool for that purpose
  - izacus 3y ago
    So what's the monetary value of not having those CVEs? How did any of that actually touch users beyond having to wait a bit for Chrome to autoupdate?
    - mdaniel 3y ago
      https://search.brave.com/news?q=chrome%20exploit%20in%20the%20wild https://search.brave.com/news?q=chrome%20exploit%20in%20the%... I'm delighted to hear that you (and I) were not personally impacted by those but to say "I didn't get in a crash, who cares about seat belts working" is comically misguided Also your "for Chrome to autoupdate" perspective makes me wish I could search for every single red Update screenshot I've seen in presentations or Zoom meetings
      - izacus 3y ago
        Again, how did that materially affect users to the point they'd switch?
  - toyg 3y ago
    The point is that all this is not seen as valuable by users and market leaders. You don't gain marketshare in b2c by saying "my gizmo is more memory-safe than other gizmos", you have to show features. Chrome's process-separation was a feature: you could easily dispose of non-responsive pages, which other browsers couldn't do as well. Even then, it wasn't really why Chrome took off - it took off because of deep integration with Google's ecosystem, incessant marketing efforts, and monopolistic behaviour (Google "unwittingly" breaking GMail and other G products on other browsers, on a regular basis). So what feature would full memory-safety actually enable? I suspect that's the bit that the Servo folks couldn't articulate well enough.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

zo1 3y ago

As someone with almost no knowledge of Servo, and personally not having a good opinion of the Mozilla foundation, your comment tells me all I need to know why they stopped support of Servo development. Only social initiatives get feel good money to waste on nice to haves. This "Servo" thing does not sound like it.

mdaniel 3y ago
I want to draw one's attention to the (at this point impressive) number of CVEs related to memory issues in Chromium's C++ codebase: https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/search/label/Stable%20updates https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/search/label/Stable%20... and control-f for CVE Even granting that some of them come from dependent libraries, if the world's arguably best funded software engineering organization can't keep C++ footguns out of an application that runs untrusted code on the regular ... one may want to have a think about whether C++ is the best tool for that purpose
- izacus 3y ago
  So what's the monetary value of not having those CVEs? How did any of that actually touch users beyond having to wait a bit for Chrome to autoupdate?
  - mdaniel 3y ago
    https://search.brave.com/news?q=chrome%20exploit%20in%20the%20wild https://search.brave.com/news?q=chrome%20exploit%20in%20the%... I'm delighted to hear that you (and I) were not personally impacted by those but to say "I didn't get in a crash, who cares about seat belts working" is comically misguided Also your "for Chrome to autoupdate" perspective makes me wish I could search for every single red Update screenshot I've seen in presentations or Zoom meetings
    - izacus 3y ago
      Again, how did that materially affect users to the point they'd switch?
- toyg 3y ago
  The point is that all this is not seen as valuable by users and market leaders. You don't gain marketshare in b2c by saying "my gizmo is more memory-safe than other gizmos", you have to show features. Chrome's process-separation was a feature: you could easily dispose of non-responsive pages, which other browsers couldn't do as well. Even then, it wasn't really why Chrome took off - it took off because of deep integration with Google's ecosystem, incessant marketing efforts, and monopolistic behaviour (Google "unwittingly" breaking GMail and other G products on other browsers, on a regular basis). So what feature would full memory-safety actually enable? I suspect that's the bit that the Servo folks couldn't articulate well enough.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]