4 ms·

The main problem with bitcoin is it's fundamentally a terrible currency. With a transaction time of between 30 minutes and 16 hours, throughput of 7 transaction

The main problem with bitcoin is it's fundamentally a terrible currency. With a transaction time of between 30 minutes and 16 hours, throughput of 7 transactions per second, and an energy consumption comparable to a medium sized country, it's an obviously awful currency for anything other than selling large quantities of drugs, ransom payments, or gambling.

pfisch 3y ago
That is an improvement over gold though, which has an insane cost to move from the us to china.
- lawn 3y ago
  Crypto had the ability to improve on both gold and cash though.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
krupan 3y ago
You are talking about settlement times of Bitcoin transactions. Yes, those take 10 minutes at best, or roughly around an hour if you want to be very confident that the funds have settled. Settlement times on dollars is generally 3 days at best. The lightning network on top of Bitcoin gives you credit card speed transaction times, with settlement still happening on the Bitcoin layer in minutes not days.
- bhaak 3y ago
  The settlement times of the Dollar is instant if cash is used. Credit cards are fast, too. Even bank transactions are usually faster than 3 days. How do you arrive at „3 days at best“? LN transactions are usually not settled within minutes but when channels are closed. Anything else would negate their whole advantage. Are you thinking of rollups (which Bitcoin doesn’t have yet).
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Traditional ACH transactions take days because they're not even transmitted to the other bank until the end of the day. Then you have to wait for their response. Credit cards are even worse. All you get instantly is whether the card info is valid and has that much credit. But it could be a stolen card or a customer who issues a fraudulent chargeback, and you may not find out about that for a month or more. Meanwhile you've long since delivered the goods.
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      > But it could be a stolen card Ah yes and bitcoin is better here because it doesn't even try to stop stolen money from being used.
      - krupan 3y ago
        Some people complain Bitcoin isn't anonymous enough, others complain that it doesn't have built-in protection that would absolutely require an invasion of privacy
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        Credit cards don't stop stolen money from being used, all they do is make it a theft from the merchant instead of a theft from the cardholder.
    - majewsky 3y ago
      When I pay something via credit card in an online store, my bank's app gives me a transaction notification within 3-5 seconds. I don't know whether that means that the transaction has been fully settled, but at least it appears to be moving through the system rather quickly. > Traditional ACH transactions take days because they're not even transmitted to the other bank until the end of the day. From what I hear in the US, their banking system is slow to innovate outside of fintech providers. Here in Europe, SEPA Instant Direct Transfer allows ACH transactions to be settled within at most 20 seconds.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  > Settlement times on dollars is generally 3 days at best. If I do a card payment the merchant knows they'll get the money inside a few seconds. Same if I use cash, or a bank transfer.
  - krupan 3y ago
    "knows they'll get the money" is different than actually has the money. And they don't know, there could be a chargeback, the credit card company could decide their business is illegitimate and withhold funds, the federal government could intervene and stop the funds. It is absolutely not the same as cash or bitcoin.
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      Sure, but the risk is low enough that Aldi is happy to let me take my food out of the store within a second or two of tapping my card. For the _extreme_ vast majority of life, that's plenty.

pfisch 3y ago

That is an improvement over gold though, which has an insane cost to move from the us to china.

lawn 3y ago
Crypto had the ability to improve on both gold and cash though.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

krupan 3y ago

You are talking about settlement times of Bitcoin transactions. Yes, those take 10 minutes at best, or roughly around an hour if you want to be very confident that the funds have settled. Settlement times on dollars is generally 3 days at best. The lightning network on top of Bitcoin gives you credit card speed transaction times, with settlement still happening on the Bitcoin layer in minutes not days.

bhaak 3y ago
The settlement times of the Dollar is instant if cash is used. Credit cards are fast, too. Even bank transactions are usually faster than 3 days. How do you arrive at „3 days at best“? LN transactions are usually not settled within minutes but when channels are closed. Anything else would negate their whole advantage. Are you thinking of rollups (which Bitcoin doesn’t have yet).
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Traditional ACH transactions take days because they're not even transmitted to the other bank until the end of the day. Then you have to wait for their response. Credit cards are even worse. All you get instantly is whether the card info is valid and has that much credit. But it could be a stolen card or a customer who issues a fraudulent chargeback, and you may not find out about that for a month or more. Meanwhile you've long since delivered the goods.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    > But it could be a stolen card Ah yes and bitcoin is better here because it doesn't even try to stop stolen money from being used.
    - krupan 3y ago
      Some people complain Bitcoin isn't anonymous enough, others complain that it doesn't have built-in protection that would absolutely require an invasion of privacy
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      Credit cards don't stop stolen money from being used, all they do is make it a theft from the merchant instead of a theft from the cardholder.
  - majewsky 3y ago
    When I pay something via credit card in an online store, my bank's app gives me a transaction notification within 3-5 seconds. I don't know whether that means that the transaction has been fully settled, but at least it appears to be moving through the system rather quickly. > Traditional ACH transactions take days because they're not even transmitted to the other bank until the end of the day. From what I hear in the US, their banking system is slow to innovate outside of fintech providers. Here in Europe, SEPA Instant Direct Transfer allows ACH transactions to be settled within at most 20 seconds.
dukeyukey 3y ago
> Settlement times on dollars is generally 3 days at best. If I do a card payment the merchant knows they'll get the money inside a few seconds. Same if I use cash, or a bank transfer.
- krupan 3y ago
  "knows they'll get the money" is different than actually has the money. And they don't know, there could be a chargeback, the credit card company could decide their business is illegitimate and withhold funds, the federal government could intervene and stop the funds. It is absolutely not the same as cash or bitcoin.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    Sure, but the risk is low enough that Aldi is happy to let me take my food out of the store within a second or two of tapping my card. For the _extreme_ vast majority of life, that's plenty.