4 ms·

I think KiCad is suitable for beginners, even if you haven't breadboarded yet, but note that Breadboards exist to give you lots and lots of practice before you

I think KiCad is suitable for beginners, even if you haven't breadboarded yet, but note that Breadboards exist to give you lots and lots of practice before you start spending money on PCBs. Each PCB is a bit of money after all, and if you are inevitably going to make a mistake it's better to breadboard. But as far as difficulty goes, things like KiCad exist for a reason. Computer automation and checks help, as well as parts libraries for you to download/copy rather than building your own footprints. So feel free to start KiCad + ordering boards the moment you are willing to lose money on your mistakes!!! It's not any harder IMO. Just costlier. ---------- As far as learning Kiad, this guide is good but it's missing the broad overview IMO. So here's my broad overview: 1. Build symbols representing each chip or part you plan to use. Standard parts (like resistors) already exist in KiCAD7.0 library, but inevitably there will be a few missing parts for your project. This may be called symbol editing, but perhaps it's more accurate to call it pin-naming. 2. Hook up the parts together in the schematic editor. Double check symbols and their pinouts now. Fix symbol mistakes now. This creates a computerized set of nets (connections) that KiCad will try to enforce moving forward. 3. Choose the footprints for every part in your schematic. Beginners should probably use 0805 (inches) parts or larger. (equivalent to 2012 metric). Like #1, there is a footprint library for common parts, but you will inevitably have to create at least one or two footprints of your own for your personal projects. Footprints tell KiCad where pins are located physically (inches or mm) here vs there. 4. PCB layout begins. KiCad has a 'rats nest' based on your schematic. As long as #1, #2, and #3 are correct (ie: correct symbols / pinouts, correct schematic, and finally correct footprints) you probably can't make a mistake anymore. Assuming a low speed beginner circuit anyway (the professional would focus on physical issues like heat, noise, EMI, crosstalk and other such issues. Beginners can likely ignore all of that assuming you chose a suitable beginner project). By step#4, KiCAD knows the name of every pin (#1), which pins should be connected to which pins (#2), and where each pin is located physically (#3). All that's left to do is draw your wires together in step#4.

chunkyks 3y ago
I'm brand new to this. I've got a relatively simple schematic from the 1950s I want to reimplement, to have a functioning thing on my desk. As you say, a few parts are missing (particular vacuum tubes). Unfortunately, every time I start implementing stuff in kicad, that's where I get overwhelmed... And to someone who's not a hardware guy, I'm completely stymied. Can you suggest what I should do?
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Each of the steps I outlined above, #1, #2, #3 and #4, are a new set of keyboard buttons and GUIs to learn for KiCad. Yes, it's a lot to take at once. But fortunately, you only have to move forward one step at a time. -------- Maybe starting at #2, Schematic, would be the only 'out of order' thing I'd recommend. There might be enough library parts to fill out a large section of your schematic (or maybe not...). Inevitably, you will have to tackle #1 (symbol editor) and #3 (footprint editor) before you finish #2 and start step #4. --------- I agree it's a lot to take in at once. But after you do all four steps and understand them, there is a sense of order and process. Especially as #1 (setting the pinout on a symbol), #2 (saying what pins are connected) and #3 (saying which pins belong where physically) are all accomplishing computerized checks to make #4 less error prone. It's a lot of info to tell KiCad, and any other PCB editor will need all this information as well, so none of it was wasted effort. It's just a lot of up front complexity that really is intimidating. --------- #2 schematic editor might be a good starting point because it's what you expect to do. #1 and #3 are somewhat unintuitive steps.
- squarefoot 3y ago
  Can you share the schematic? I'm not familiar with KiCad or other similar software, so take this with a grain of salt, anyway I think that for simple schematics, especially that old, meaning all tht parts, single side pcbs, unless one is recreating a complex circuit, probably the "by hand" approach is a lot faster than using software.
- cushychicken 3y ago
  This original article is a pretty complete reference for everything you need. Consider keeping it open as you try to achieve your recreation.
  - _Microft 3y ago
    Or read a section first (e.g. how to create a footprint or symbol) to better understand what is happening and then watch a tutorial video of someone doing exactly that to see it in action.
- 3y ago
_Microft 3y ago
I would even recommend decoupling the processes a bit. That is - start with a known good schematic, ideally one that exists as KiCad schematic already (look for KiCad projects on Github). Practice creating a board outline, placing some parts and routing traces, make yourself familiar with the tools around that (how to deal with layers; how to use the design ruler checker; the 3D preview to find blatant mistakes with connectors or so; how to export the files (if necessary - Aisler accepts KiCad files for example)). If you want, export it and order it. At JLCPCB that should be $2/2€ + shipping if five pieces and HASL is good enough. Then maybe enter a known good schematic oneself. Then create a simple circuit on breadboard, turn it into a schematic, enter that. ...
stavros 3y ago
I'm not sure why you position things as if it's either KiCAD or breadboards. Whenever I've designed a PCB, I've gone from breadboard, to schematic, to PCB (the last two in KiCAD). The breadboard is a necessary first step to make sure that the circuit works in the real world, not just in theory.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dragontamer 3y ago
  These days, with $5/sq-inch 2 layer boards and cheap prices for 4 or 6 layer boards... This makes 40+ pin microcontrollers and 200+ pin BGAs even are well within the means of a modern Hobbyist today in 2023. But there is no hope for these chips to ever be adequately placed on a breadboard. ------- From my experience, breadboards and protoboards are for simpler learning projects. But you rather quickly grow beyond what a breadboard can offer. Breadboard when you are at breadboarding level. But once you graduate to greater levels of complexity, you can only buy custom pcbs (and possibly 4 or even 6 layers at that). It's literally impossible to breakout a full square ~17x17 pin BGA on 4 layers, let alone dealing with EMI or signal integrity effects.
  - stavros 3y ago
    That's true, I guess my designs are rather more basic than that. I never managed to figure out how to work with these slightly more complicated chips, though I'd like to.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      Start with a 32-pin beginner uC like STM32G0, AVR64DD32 (more modern version of AtMega328pb), PIC, or other such chip. Find a useful sensor to some itch you have: temperature, pressure, weight, time, CO2, accelerometer, whatever is interesting to you. Make a design that reads the sensor and writes it to LEDs (red is bad, green is good), or 7-seg displays, screens or some other visual device. Order 3 or 4 boards, low temperature lead free solder paste, no clean flux (bullshit, you should clean it off), solder wick, cheap isopropyl alcohol to clean the flux after the fact, a pancake grill, and 3 or 4 copies of all the chips you need. If you stick with larger surface mount chips like 0805 inches or 2012 (metric), a soldering iron is sufficient for rework. Smaller chips require a hot air gun. Try to stick with larger chips like SSOP or even SOIC chips. TQFP should be doable with the sloppy then flux+solder wick cleanup method but don't go any smaller as a beginner. SOT-23 is easy. -------- Mess up your first attempt. That's fine, you have 2x more tries. Build it successfully using pancake griddle reflow method (solder paste on the pads, be sloppy if you must. Place enough so all the components stick to the gel-like solder paste in place. Heat to 350F or 138C for low-temp solder paste (you can tell because it liquefies and all the components start floating). Use a toothpick to push items back into place, turn off heat. When cool, use lots of flux, solder wick + solder iron to fix bridges (should be super easy. If it's not easy, use more flux and try again and/or buy new solder flux+wick. That stuff goes bad every 2 months). Done. Except you probably made a mistake on your schematic. Fix that, order new parts, try again and be happy the time it finally works. Keep your flux, wick, and solder paste refreshed (throw out old consumables, buy new every few months) and you should be good to go. Order a x10 jewelers loupe or x15 or x25 to visually inspect these solder joints. If all looks well, grab your fire extinguisher and turn on your electronics project! Best of luck.

chunkyks 3y ago

I'm brand new to this. I've got a relatively simple schematic from the 1950s I want to reimplement, to have a functioning thing on my desk. As you say, a few parts are missing (particular vacuum tubes). Unfortunately, every time I start implementing stuff in kicad, that's where I get overwhelmed... And to someone who's not a hardware guy, I'm completely stymied. Can you suggest what I should do?

dragontamer 3y ago
Each of the steps I outlined above, #1, #2, #3 and #4, are a new set of keyboard buttons and GUIs to learn for KiCad. Yes, it's a lot to take at once. But fortunately, you only have to move forward one step at a time. -------- Maybe starting at #2, Schematic, would be the only 'out of order' thing I'd recommend. There might be enough library parts to fill out a large section of your schematic (or maybe not...). Inevitably, you will have to tackle #1 (symbol editor) and #3 (footprint editor) before you finish #2 and start step #4. --------- I agree it's a lot to take in at once. But after you do all four steps and understand them, there is a sense of order and process. Especially as #1 (setting the pinout on a symbol), #2 (saying what pins are connected) and #3 (saying which pins belong where physically) are all accomplishing computerized checks to make #4 less error prone. It's a lot of info to tell KiCad, and any other PCB editor will need all this information as well, so none of it was wasted effort. It's just a lot of up front complexity that really is intimidating. --------- #2 schematic editor might be a good starting point because it's what you expect to do. #1 and #3 are somewhat unintuitive steps.
squarefoot 3y ago
Can you share the schematic? I'm not familiar with KiCad or other similar software, so take this with a grain of salt, anyway I think that for simple schematics, especially that old, meaning all tht parts, single side pcbs, unless one is recreating a complex circuit, probably the "by hand" approach is a lot faster than using software.
cushychicken 3y ago
This original article is a pretty complete reference for everything you need. Consider keeping it open as you try to achieve your recreation.
- _Microft 3y ago
  Or read a section first (e.g. how to create a footprint or symbol) to better understand what is happening and then watch a tutorial video of someone doing exactly that to see it in action.
3y ago

_Microft 3y ago

I would even recommend decoupling the processes a bit. That is - start with a known good schematic, ideally one that exists as KiCad schematic already (look for KiCad projects on Github). Practice creating a board outline, placing some parts and routing traces, make yourself familiar with the tools around that (how to deal with layers; how to use the design ruler checker; the 3D preview to find blatant mistakes with connectors or so; how to export the files (if necessary - Aisler accepts KiCad files for example)). If you want, export it and order it. At JLCPCB that should be $2/2€ + shipping if five pieces and HASL is good enough. Then maybe enter a known good schematic oneself. Then create a simple circuit on breadboard, turn it into a schematic, enter that. ...

stavros 3y ago

I'm not sure why you position things as if it's either KiCAD or breadboards. Whenever I've designed a PCB, I've gone from breadboard, to schematic, to PCB (the last two in KiCAD). The breadboard is a necessary first step to make sure that the circuit works in the real world, not just in theory.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dragontamer 3y ago
These days, with $5/sq-inch 2 layer boards and cheap prices for 4 or 6 layer boards... This makes 40+ pin microcontrollers and 200+ pin BGAs even are well within the means of a modern Hobbyist today in 2023. But there is no hope for these chips to ever be adequately placed on a breadboard. ------- From my experience, breadboards and protoboards are for simpler learning projects. But you rather quickly grow beyond what a breadboard can offer. Breadboard when you are at breadboarding level. But once you graduate to greater levels of complexity, you can only buy custom pcbs (and possibly 4 or even 6 layers at that). It's literally impossible to breakout a full square ~17x17 pin BGA on 4 layers, let alone dealing with EMI or signal integrity effects.
- stavros 3y ago
  That's true, I guess my designs are rather more basic than that. I never managed to figure out how to work with these slightly more complicated chips, though I'd like to.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Start with a 32-pin beginner uC like STM32G0, AVR64DD32 (more modern version of AtMega328pb), PIC, or other such chip. Find a useful sensor to some itch you have: temperature, pressure, weight, time, CO2, accelerometer, whatever is interesting to you. Make a design that reads the sensor and writes it to LEDs (red is bad, green is good), or 7-seg displays, screens or some other visual device. Order 3 or 4 boards, low temperature lead free solder paste, no clean flux (bullshit, you should clean it off), solder wick, cheap isopropyl alcohol to clean the flux after the fact, a pancake grill, and 3 or 4 copies of all the chips you need. If you stick with larger surface mount chips like 0805 inches or 2012 (metric), a soldering iron is sufficient for rework. Smaller chips require a hot air gun. Try to stick with larger chips like SSOP or even SOIC chips. TQFP should be doable with the sloppy then flux+solder wick cleanup method but don't go any smaller as a beginner. SOT-23 is easy. -------- Mess up your first attempt. That's fine, you have 2x more tries. Build it successfully using pancake griddle reflow method (solder paste on the pads, be sloppy if you must. Place enough so all the components stick to the gel-like solder paste in place. Heat to 350F or 138C for low-temp solder paste (you can tell because it liquefies and all the components start floating). Use a toothpick to push items back into place, turn off heat. When cool, use lots of flux, solder wick + solder iron to fix bridges (should be super easy. If it's not easy, use more flux and try again and/or buy new solder flux+wick. That stuff goes bad every 2 months). Done. Except you probably made a mistake on your schematic. Fix that, order new parts, try again and be happy the time it finally works. Keep your flux, wick, and solder paste refreshed (throw out old consumables, buy new every few months) and you should be good to go. Order a x10 jewelers loupe or x15 or x25 to visually inspect these solder joints. If all looks well, grab your fire extinguisher and turn on your electronics project! Best of luck.