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It really says so much that we allow these systems on our public roads.

ergonaught 3y ago
I don't know if you've paid much attention to the other systems we allow on our public roads, but they're looking at their phones instead of avoiding collisions, or they're aggressively refusing to cooperate instead of collaboratively producing flow and throughput, or they're impaired by substances or medications or diseases or untested capability degeneration, or
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  We don't allow these things on public roads, there's laws against texting, alcohol, aggressive driving &c. But Tesla's autopilot with no sense of the world around it is the equivalent of a teenager in his second driving lesson. We don't let those drive.
  - screamingninja 3y ago
    > there's laws against texting Not in several US states, including where I live > alcohol Most states legally allow BAC up to 0.08, which is too high for someone expected to make split second decisions > aggressive driving Maybe there's laws against it but never seen it enforced. Aggressive driving is extremely common here. And you say we don't allow these things to happen on public roads?
  - ergonaught 3y ago
    Some places have some laws against those things, but they are still "allowed on the road" and only "punished" after they are "caught". In any case, I assure you Tesla's autopilot is vastly beyond a teenager in their "second driving lesson." Driving lessons! How quaint! As if these are obligatory prior to being "allowed on the road" everywhere! Simply darling.
1970-01-01 3y ago
No, it does not. Tesla's safety stats clearly show FSD systems prevent accidents, and in such a large volume, that making such a statement is fundamentally a counterargument for safety. Interpret the data, then comment. Not the other way around. https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
- katbyte 3y ago
  I’m sorry if I don’t believe anything from the company that has been proven to lie, deceive, deflect and make things up. Independent source?
  - 1970-01-01 3y ago
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/
    - usea 3y ago
      That's just blogspam about how amazing and wonderful the other report you linked is. It's somehow even less credible than tesla.
      - 1970-01-01 3y ago
        Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Read the article before posting. It has links and contains scores for IIHS Crash avoidance & mitigation and Euro NCAP Safety Assist. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        katbyte 3y ago
        How about instead of nitpicking someone’s comment you actually try to reply to their valid criticisms of your link? It doesn’t actually collaborate teslas claims (it is also as they said even more slimy and blog spammy) and the bit you are talking about are just links to it’s own articles which again don’t really have real metrics or stats on how their autonomous systems fare
irchans 3y ago
I would be happy to allow these systems on our public roads if they had fewer accidents/fatalities per mile than human drivers. Google found this claim "According to the report, Tesla cars with Autopilot turned on are much safer than cars driven by people. In Q4 2022, there was only one crash for every 4.85 million miles driven." Here is an article that discusses the safety of driverless cars. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/are-self-driving-cars-already-safer-than-human-drivers/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/are-self-driving-cars-a...

I don't know if you've paid much attention to the other systems we allow on our public roads, but they're looking at their phones instead of avoiding collisions, or they're aggressively refusing to cooperate instead of collaboratively producing flow and throughput, or they're impaired by substances or medications or diseases or untested capability degeneration, or

HarryHirsch 3y ago
We don't allow these things on public roads, there's laws against texting, alcohol, aggressive driving &c. But Tesla's autopilot with no sense of the world around it is the equivalent of a teenager in his second driving lesson. We don't let those drive.
- screamingninja 3y ago
  > there's laws against texting Not in several US states, including where I live > alcohol Most states legally allow BAC up to 0.08, which is too high for someone expected to make split second decisions > aggressive driving Maybe there's laws against it but never seen it enforced. Aggressive driving is extremely common here. And you say we don't allow these things to happen on public roads?
- ergonaught 3y ago
  Some places have some laws against those things, but they are still "allowed on the road" and only "punished" after they are "caught". In any case, I assure you Tesla's autopilot is vastly beyond a teenager in their "second driving lesson." Driving lessons! How quaint! As if these are obligatory prior to being "allowed on the road" everywhere! Simply darling.

1970-01-01 3y ago

No, it does not. Tesla's safety stats clearly show FSD systems prevent accidents, and in such a large volume, that making such a statement is fundamentally a counterargument for safety. Interpret the data, then comment. Not the other way around. https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

katbyte 3y ago
I’m sorry if I don’t believe anything from the company that has been proven to lie, deceive, deflect and make things up. Independent source?
- 1970-01-01 3y ago
  https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/
  - usea 3y ago
    That's just blogspam about how amazing and wonderful the other report you linked is. It's somehow even less credible than tesla.
    - 1970-01-01 3y ago
      Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Read the article before posting. It has links and contains scores for IIHS Crash avoidance & mitigation and Euro NCAP Safety Assist. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - katbyte 3y ago
        How about instead of nitpicking someone’s comment you actually try to reply to their valid criticisms of your link? It doesn’t actually collaborate teslas claims (it is also as they said even more slimy and blog spammy) and the bit you are talking about are just links to it’s own articles which again don’t really have real metrics or stats on how their autonomous systems fare

irchans 3y ago

I would be happy to allow these systems on our public roads if they had fewer accidents/fatalities per mile than human drivers. Google found this claim "According to the report, Tesla cars with Autopilot turned on are much safer than cars driven by people. In Q4 2022, there was only one crash for every 4.85 million miles driven." Here is an article that discusses the safety of driverless cars. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/are-self-driving-cars-already-safer-than-human-drivers/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/are-self-driving-cars-a...