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Note that these cultural norms evolved prior to modern birth control, STI testing/treatment, and peak population. Birth control is a radical invention and it i
by orasis 3y ago
Note that these cultural norms evolved prior to modern birth control, STI testing/treatment, and peak population.
Birth control is a radical invention and it is shocking that it hasn’t led to even more rapid cultural change than it has.
One also needs to separate generalized cultural knowledge from individual knowledge. As people mature, they should tend to individuate and discover “what works for them” vs “what works for society”.
That individual knowledge can be bootstrapped on cultural knowledge, but ultimately we may each need to reject aspects of our culture in order to discover our unique path.
- rayiner 3y ago> That individual knowledge can be bootstrapped on cultural knowledge, but ultimately we may each need to reject aspects of our culture in order to discover our unique path. But we’re not unique individuals. We’re 8 billion copies of two sexes of human animal, and pretty much everyone falls into a handful of archetypes and social roles.
- orasis 3y agoSeeking to collapse the unique contexts and interplay between 8 billion individuals is incredibly dangerous, leading to things like command-and-control economies, socialism, and genecide. The information surface area and processing power of 8 billion people far exceeds the few bits representing your “handful of archetypes and social roles”. Anyone who believes that Western civilization has been largely functional should soundly reject these ideas and agree that individuation is a fundamentally Good Thing.
- rayiner 3y agoWestern civilization is literally in the middle of wiping itself out. People have become so individualistic and self-absorbed that they cannot even perpetuate their own civilization and need to import people from the Middle East and Africa to avoid disappearing. The phrase “jump the shark” comes to mind.
- dwaltrip 3y agoAll highly developed societies have birth rates below replacement. Nothing special about western nations there.
- rayiner 3y agoI think that’s more of a confounding correlation. America had birth rates above 3 when it landed a man in the moon. And Europe was “highly developed” before birth rates started collapsing in the 1970s. Several highly successful American subgroups, such as Muslims and Mormons, still have birth rates above replacement. And Asia has its own distinct issue, which is that development coincided with population control evangelism from the west.
- andelink 3y agoYou’ve mentioned Mormonism twice now as an example of successful monogamous societies but it should be noted that the growth rate of the church has become negative. I’d be amazed if the LDS church is still around in any meaningful way 30 years from now. It’s hardly meaningful now.
- dwaltrip 3y agoAs far as I can tell, it's one of the more robust sociological correlations that has been established worldwide. Fertility rates are dropping on every continent, and the drops are strongly correlated with economic development. See links below, they seem pretty damning. And yes, it begun in the second half of the 20th century, but I don't think that makes it spurious. I wouldn't be surprised if western cultural influence played a meaningful role, but I can't imagine that explaining the entire phenomenon. --- * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility (see the graph at the top) * https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#total-fertility-rate-around-the-world-over-recent-centuries https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#total-fertility-ra... * https://www.statista.com/statistics/1034075/fertility-rate-world-continents-1950-2020/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1034075/fertility-rate-w...