4 ms·

Half-devil advocating here, but is this the end of the world? Right now, we have software that we expect that keeps being updated, but the company gets a one t

Half-devil advocating here, but is this the end of the world? Right now, we have software that we expect that keeps being updated, but the company gets a one time payment. With a subscription, things get more stable financially and the company can adjust the budget accordingly. It also incentivized keeping Windows good and working so those subscriptions don't get cancelled.

lotsoweiners 3y ago
Windows is free when I buy a PC. If I need to pay additional money to keep the OS running then I may as well save some money in the first place and just use Linux.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  I hear System76 has some decent machines that don't have to stomach the cost of a Windows license. I believe Dell also offers a variant of the Dell XPS that is cheaper for having Linux?
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Framework laptops too: https://frame.work https://frame.work The have the OS choice (Windows Home, Pro, or "No OS") with the price listed for each. "No OS" is $0, the windows ones aren't.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      My main complaint against them used to be the lack of GPU. But now, if I ever have a next laptop, it very well could be a Framework 16.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        16 not 15?
        LoganDark 3y ago
        oops
- grotorea 3y ago
  Windows is free because the price is bundled. There's the possibility that the PC will be cheaper with a subscription since the OEM won't have to pay Microsoft for the Windows license if it's the end user paying the subscription. Microsoft could even end up paying the OEM for preinstalling Windows.
donmcronald 3y ago
It's a way to significantly increase the total cost of owning Windows. I have tons of PCs that are 10 years old and have a $100-200 Windows license on them. There's no way on earth Microsoft is going to offer a $10-20 per year subscription for Windows. My guess is that we'll be looking at something in the range of $5 USD per-month with some kind of bundle deal around $100 USD per year that includes MS365. A best case scenario would be some type of MS365 family plan that includes a Windows license. It's going to be the same as when Adobe switched to subscriptions. The internet will be filled with people proclaiming how great it is for everyone because "updates aren't free", but then we'll see the total cost of ownership go up drastically. I think we'll see a solid 3x increase in the total cost of owning Windows for anyone that keeps their computer for 10 years. That's about where Office got priced. It broke even at about a 3 year lifecycle IIRC, so any individuals or small businesses that ran a longer lifecycle saw a dramatic increase in cost. > It also incentivized keeping Windows good and working so those subscriptions don't get cancelled. Lol. For most people, they need it and don't have any other options, so the status quo is going to be paying a subscription, watching ads, and giving up all your personal data. The subscription is a price increase, not a move to give us a better product. If they bundle it with MS365, that's the time to break up Microsoft. If it were up to me they'd get split into so many different companies that each product within the Office suite would be a separate company. Excel should absolutely be it's own company at this point.
- grotorea 3y ago
  I do wonder how they expect to compete on the home PC market against Android and iOS devices with a subscription that is more expensive than the one time license. As for business, yeah they're probably going to bundle it on MS365 and deal with it. Even for consumers, how many home Windows PC users don't use Office? > I think we'll see a solid 3x increase in the total cost of owning Windows for anyone that keeps their computer for 10 years. That's about where Office got priced. It broke even at about a 3 year lifecycle IIRC, so any individuals or small businesses that ran a longer lifecycle saw a dramatic increase in cost. Maybe they're hoping that a lower initial price will lure in more users? Are the people with longer lifecycle easier to extract higher prices from for some reason?
jrflowers 3y ago
> Half-devil advocating here, but is this the end of the world? I agree. Consumers being able to confidently and simply calculate total cost of ownership is archaic — it only got Microsoft to $2.4T in valuation. What consumers really want is to get MSFT to $2.49T and we’ll happily accept a black box of personal and business costs to get them there
- grotorea 3y ago
  Eh, you can just get the price and include it in the budget as a monthly expense, no different from any other. Consider that the normal one time price will only last for as long as you use the OS. Why is a one time fee that will last an undetermined but long time always simpler than a repeating fee? And what if the one-time fee is too expensive and I wanted to spread it? Unless Microsoft decides to change the price later of course. In which case you'd have little recourse since changing OSes is hard.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    > Eh, you can just get the price and include it in the budget as a monthly expense, no different from any other. Exactly! Before you could add the cost of hardware and Windows together and come up with a single number that reflects how much money you’d spend before retiring a pc once the hardware gives out. With this innovative new model we can simply forecast the number to be higher or lower, or ideally just leave it blank until we fill it into the spreadsheet at hardware EOL.
  - xg15 3y ago
    Because a one-time fee isn't a monthly expense but a subscription is - and your budget of monthly recurring payments is much more limited than your budget of one-time payments. > Consider that the normal one time price will only last for as long as you use the Which can be decades if people aren't artificially forced to abandon the os.
mock-possum 3y ago
I mean it would be the end of me using windows for personal computing. The only reason I use Microsoft office these days is if my employer springs for a subscription for me - windows could easily be the same.
mdekkers 3y ago
> things get more stable financially and the company can adjust the budget accordingly. Ah yes, Microsoft. The company known for being so cash poor and not making money from their OS.

lotsoweiners 3y ago

Windows is free when I buy a PC. If I need to pay additional money to keep the OS running then I may as well save some money in the first place and just use Linux.

LoganDark 3y ago
I hear System76 has some decent machines that don't have to stomach the cost of a Windows license. I believe Dell also offers a variant of the Dell XPS that is cheaper for having Linux?
- justinclift 3y ago
  Framework laptops too: https://frame.work https://frame.work The have the OS choice (Windows Home, Pro, or "No OS") with the price listed for each. "No OS" is $0, the windows ones aren't.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    My main complaint against them used to be the lack of GPU. But now, if I ever have a next laptop, it very well could be a Framework 16.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      16 not 15?
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        oops
grotorea 3y ago
Windows is free because the price is bundled. There's the possibility that the PC will be cheaper with a subscription since the OEM won't have to pay Microsoft for the Windows license if it's the end user paying the subscription. Microsoft could even end up paying the OEM for preinstalling Windows.

donmcronald 3y ago

It's a way to significantly increase the total cost of owning Windows. I have tons of PCs that are 10 years old and have a $100-200 Windows license on them. There's no way on earth Microsoft is going to offer a $10-20 per year subscription for Windows. My guess is that we'll be looking at something in the range of $5 USD per-month with some kind of bundle deal around $100 USD per year that includes MS365. A best case scenario would be some type of MS365 family plan that includes a Windows license. It's going to be the same as when Adobe switched to subscriptions. The internet will be filled with people proclaiming how great it is for everyone because "updates aren't free", but then we'll see the total cost of ownership go up drastically. I think we'll see a solid 3x increase in the total cost of owning Windows for anyone that keeps their computer for 10 years. That's about where Office got priced. It broke even at about a 3 year lifecycle IIRC, so any individuals or small businesses that ran a longer lifecycle saw a dramatic increase in cost. > It also incentivized keeping Windows good and working so those subscriptions don't get cancelled. Lol. For most people, they need it and don't have any other options, so the status quo is going to be paying a subscription, watching ads, and giving up all your personal data. The subscription is a price increase, not a move to give us a better product. If they bundle it with MS365, that's the time to break up Microsoft. If it were up to me they'd get split into so many different companies that each product within the Office suite would be a separate company. Excel should absolutely be it's own company at this point.

grotorea 3y ago
I do wonder how they expect to compete on the home PC market against Android and iOS devices with a subscription that is more expensive than the one time license. As for business, yeah they're probably going to bundle it on MS365 and deal with it. Even for consumers, how many home Windows PC users don't use Office? > I think we'll see a solid 3x increase in the total cost of owning Windows for anyone that keeps their computer for 10 years. That's about where Office got priced. It broke even at about a 3 year lifecycle IIRC, so any individuals or small businesses that ran a longer lifecycle saw a dramatic increase in cost. Maybe they're hoping that a lower initial price will lure in more users? Are the people with longer lifecycle easier to extract higher prices from for some reason?

jrflowers 3y ago

> Half-devil advocating here, but is this the end of the world? I agree. Consumers being able to confidently and simply calculate total cost of ownership is archaic — it only got Microsoft to $2.4T in valuation. What consumers really want is to get MSFT to $2.49T and we’ll happily accept a black box of personal and business costs to get them there

grotorea 3y ago
Eh, you can just get the price and include it in the budget as a monthly expense, no different from any other. Consider that the normal one time price will only last for as long as you use the OS. Why is a one time fee that will last an undetermined but long time always simpler than a repeating fee? And what if the one-time fee is too expensive and I wanted to spread it? Unless Microsoft decides to change the price later of course. In which case you'd have little recourse since changing OSes is hard.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  > Eh, you can just get the price and include it in the budget as a monthly expense, no different from any other. Exactly! Before you could add the cost of hardware and Windows together and come up with a single number that reflects how much money you’d spend before retiring a pc once the hardware gives out. With this innovative new model we can simply forecast the number to be higher or lower, or ideally just leave it blank until we fill it into the spreadsheet at hardware EOL.
- xg15 3y ago
  Because a one-time fee isn't a monthly expense but a subscription is - and your budget of monthly recurring payments is much more limited than your budget of one-time payments. > Consider that the normal one time price will only last for as long as you use the Which can be decades if people aren't artificially forced to abandon the os.

mock-possum 3y ago

I mean it would be the end of me using windows for personal computing. The only reason I use Microsoft office these days is if my employer springs for a subscription for me - windows could easily be the same.

mdekkers 3y ago

> things get more stable financially and the company can adjust the budget accordingly. Ah yes, Microsoft. The company known for being so cash poor and not making money from their OS.