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That's great. I'm glad the loans are working better. But that's just being done as bait for the trap that is the cashless transactions.

fakedang 3y ago
Honestly, why should I care if the government has access to my transaction history? The government hasn't eliminated cash as an alternative, it still exists and has to be mandatorily accepted as payment (unlike in some parts of Europe and USA). What UPI has done is allowing the most disadvantaged people to take part in the value exchange process too. I recently used UPI to pay a street vendor, but without it, I would have been stuck with high denomination notes (because foreign currency converts exponentially against INR), hunting for a place to exchange it for lower denominations. Instead the street vendor got my business. For the stuff that I would really like to hide from the government (not that it matters as an non-resident), I wouldn't be using UPI - that's just stupid and the equivalent of leaking classified documents on War Thunder or something. Most people engaging in that would simply call their banker in Dubai or Singapore, who'll readily arrange whatever shady transaction they would like, through perfectly legal and convoluted routes.
- superkuh 3y ago
  It's common to portray government mass surveillance as only dangerous to people who are commiting crimes. That could not be further from the truth. As you say, criminals will already have means to avoid the surveillance. Whereas ordinary people will have their every transaction logged. Then leaked. Then used against them by corrupt local officials and criminals who get access to the information. And that's not even getting into the risks from government policy changes making formerly legal behavior illegal (like, say, abortion in the USA).
- hskalin 3y ago
  If you may, can you tell how did you set-up UPI as a foreigner since it requires a bank account AFAIK
  - fakedang 3y ago
    I'm an NRI (a non-resident Indian) and an Indian citizen. I can open an NRI type account with my bank, although even Persons of Indian Origin (PIOs), Overseas Citizens of India (OCI) cardholders and resident foreign citizens in India can open bank accounts, the former also being able to open NRI accounts in spite of not being citizens. AFAIK, the people facing issues opening a bank account are only tourists, and opening a bank account is relatively easy compared to most countries. As for actually using UPI, the government recently allowed some foreign numbers to be registered with the UPI authority, so all bank accounts with those countries' foreign numbers such as NRI accounts can be used within the UPI system. Those countries include Canada, USA, UK, UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Singapore and Australia iirc. So I'm certain that they'll extend it to more countries soon.

fakedang 3y ago

Honestly, why should I care if the government has access to my transaction history? The government hasn't eliminated cash as an alternative, it still exists and has to be mandatorily accepted as payment (unlike in some parts of Europe and USA). What UPI has done is allowing the most disadvantaged people to take part in the value exchange process too. I recently used UPI to pay a street vendor, but without it, I would have been stuck with high denomination notes (because foreign currency converts exponentially against INR), hunting for a place to exchange it for lower denominations. Instead the street vendor got my business. For the stuff that I would really like to hide from the government (not that it matters as an non-resident), I wouldn't be using UPI - that's just stupid and the equivalent of leaking classified documents on War Thunder or something. Most people engaging in that would simply call their banker in Dubai or Singapore, who'll readily arrange whatever shady transaction they would like, through perfectly legal and convoluted routes.

superkuh 3y ago
It's common to portray government mass surveillance as only dangerous to people who are commiting crimes. That could not be further from the truth. As you say, criminals will already have means to avoid the surveillance. Whereas ordinary people will have their every transaction logged. Then leaked. Then used against them by corrupt local officials and criminals who get access to the information. And that's not even getting into the risks from government policy changes making formerly legal behavior illegal (like, say, abortion in the USA).
hskalin 3y ago
If you may, can you tell how did you set-up UPI as a foreigner since it requires a bank account AFAIK
- fakedang 3y ago
  I'm an NRI (a non-resident Indian) and an Indian citizen. I can open an NRI type account with my bank, although even Persons of Indian Origin (PIOs), Overseas Citizens of India (OCI) cardholders and resident foreign citizens in India can open bank accounts, the former also being able to open NRI accounts in spite of not being citizens. AFAIK, the people facing issues opening a bank account are only tourists, and opening a bank account is relatively easy compared to most countries. As for actually using UPI, the government recently allowed some foreign numbers to be registered with the UPI authority, so all bank accounts with those countries' foreign numbers such as NRI accounts can be used within the UPI system. Those countries include Canada, USA, UK, UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Singapore and Australia iirc. So I'm certain that they'll extend it to more countries soon.