5 ms·

Maybe instead of hiring private contractors to invent new propulsion systems and then conceal them from the public good, we should give some of our ~$600 billio

Maybe instead of hiring private contractors to invent new propulsion systems and then conceal them from the public good, we should give some of our ~$600 billion military budget to these agencies.

xyzelement 3y ago
I am curious, let's say we wound down the military and gave all the money to something else... what do you think would immediately happen to us right after?
- RangerScience 3y ago
  (not OP) Defense contractors would start pulling out the cost-saving technologies, etc that they've been sitting on to win bids, now that there's less money in the pot. Cost-plus contracts are whack, man. Source: Way back when, worked in industrial augmented reality, and some colleagues came from defense (ship building) because of exactly this issue. Their prior employer had (quietly) pioneered various uses of AR in ship assembly, which drastically reduced costs, but wasn't actually deploying it because cost-saving actually reduces their profits, so they only actually use them when it comes time to win bids. Pretty sure you're fishing for "we get attacked" tho, which I neither agree with, nor have the background to coherently argue against.
- ofslidingfeet 3y ago
  I wouldn't be in favor of winding down the military. I would be in favor of giving private contractors a choice between subjecting themselves to meaningful oversight or we can reallocate their funding to entities that will.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  Literally nothing. America is armed to the teeth. If the government deputized and allowed citizen militias to patrol its borders, there would be very low risk of invasion. Any invasion force would face tremendous logistical problems and irregular warfare by a well armed populace. Simply put, nobody can invade and control America. We would see a repeat of the Battles of Lexington and Concord.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    Awesome - so we would live in a mad max world fighting irregular warfare across Asia, Europe, and the Americas, instead of developing open source software and playing video games? I think I’d rather be conquered if that’s the alternative and go back to playing video games and developing open source software.
    - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago
      TV used to be the opiate of the masses. Now it's video games and social media.
      - fnordpiglet 3y ago
        And open source software.
  - rhcom2 3y ago
    How does a populace with small arms defend against a cruise missile? A bomber? A submarine? Certainly there would be irregular war akin to any of the irregular warfare the US military has faced and control might never be completely established, but it wouldn't have to be for it to be the end of the US as we know it.
    - orangepurple 3y ago
      You don't. You pull a North Vietnam and never surrender to the occupation forces. Eventually the enemy cannot afford to sustain an occupation and withdraws. America has so many more guns than any other country on earth and people intelligent enough to use them well that an invasion force has NO CHANCE of success in the medium to long term. Never underestimate the amount of power and influence a small group of people with rifles and irregular warfare tactics can wield. Especially locals that know every square inch of their backyards by heart. Look no further than Ukraine for a recent example, which is somehow hanging on for over two years mostly with light arms, almost no training, while completely outgunned. America has geography strongly in its favor except Alaska. A successful adversary would need to fragment and manufacture American allegiances with divide and conquer tactics to succeed.
- stetrain 3y ago
  Someone suggestions diverting some wasteful spending from the military and you jump to winding down the military and giving all of its money to something else?
- henry2023 3y ago
  Optimizing the DoD is very different from having all the money going to something else. To stop funding overseas wars as one of many many more example shouldn’t affect our ability to protect our country
rl3 3y ago
>Maybe instead of hiring private contractors to invent new propulsion systems and then conceal them from the public good, ... Citation needed.
oldbbsnickname 3y ago
The official budget for 2023 was $773 B with ~$350 B going to contractors. There are multiple elements to issuing grants. It's not simply moving money around from one line item to another. If agencies have been gutted or don't have the budget, then can't write requests for grant proposals or can't offer what they don't have.
mcpackieh 3y ago
I agree, this is a great time for a peace dividend. The geopolitical situation in Europe and Asia is more stable than ever before. The Soviet Union is gone, NATO seems like an irrelevant relic from the cold war, and China is rapidly liberalizing thanks to free market forces. The rules-based international order has won and history is finally over. Yours truly, Rip Van Winkle.

Maybe instead of hiring private contractors to invent new propulsion systems and then conceal them from the public good, we should give some of our ~$600 billion military budget to these agencies.

xyzelement 3y ago

I am curious, let's say we wound down the military and gave all the money to something else... what do you think would immediately happen to us right after?

RangerScience 3y ago
(not OP) Defense contractors would start pulling out the cost-saving technologies, etc that they've been sitting on to win bids, now that there's less money in the pot. Cost-plus contracts are whack, man. Source: Way back when, worked in industrial augmented reality, and some colleagues came from defense (ship building) because of exactly this issue. Their prior employer had (quietly) pioneered various uses of AR in ship assembly, which drastically reduced costs, but wasn't actually deploying it because cost-saving actually reduces their profits, so they only actually use them when it comes time to win bids. Pretty sure you're fishing for "we get attacked" tho, which I neither agree with, nor have the background to coherently argue against.
ofslidingfeet 3y ago
I wouldn't be in favor of winding down the military. I would be in favor of giving private contractors a choice between subjecting themselves to meaningful oversight or we can reallocate their funding to entities that will.
orangepurple 3y ago
Literally nothing. America is armed to the teeth. If the government deputized and allowed citizen militias to patrol its borders, there would be very low risk of invasion. Any invasion force would face tremendous logistical problems and irregular warfare by a well armed populace. Simply put, nobody can invade and control America. We would see a repeat of the Battles of Lexington and Concord.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  Awesome - so we would live in a mad max world fighting irregular warfare across Asia, Europe, and the Americas, instead of developing open source software and playing video games? I think I’d rather be conquered if that’s the alternative and go back to playing video games and developing open source software.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago
    TV used to be the opiate of the masses. Now it's video games and social media.
    - fnordpiglet 3y ago
      And open source software.
- rhcom2 3y ago
  How does a populace with small arms defend against a cruise missile? A bomber? A submarine? Certainly there would be irregular war akin to any of the irregular warfare the US military has faced and control might never be completely established, but it wouldn't have to be for it to be the end of the US as we know it.
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    You don't. You pull a North Vietnam and never surrender to the occupation forces. Eventually the enemy cannot afford to sustain an occupation and withdraws. America has so many more guns than any other country on earth and people intelligent enough to use them well that an invasion force has NO CHANCE of success in the medium to long term. Never underestimate the amount of power and influence a small group of people with rifles and irregular warfare tactics can wield. Especially locals that know every square inch of their backyards by heart. Look no further than Ukraine for a recent example, which is somehow hanging on for over two years mostly with light arms, almost no training, while completely outgunned. America has geography strongly in its favor except Alaska. A successful adversary would need to fragment and manufacture American allegiances with divide and conquer tactics to succeed.
stetrain 3y ago
Someone suggestions diverting some wasteful spending from the military and you jump to winding down the military and giving all of its money to something else?
henry2023 3y ago
Optimizing the DoD is very different from having all the money going to something else. To stop funding overseas wars as one of many many more example shouldn’t affect our ability to protect our country

rl3 3y ago

>Maybe instead of hiring private contractors to invent new propulsion systems and then conceal them from the public good, ... Citation needed.

oldbbsnickname 3y ago

The official budget for 2023 was $773 B with ~$350 B going to contractors. There are multiple elements to issuing grants. It's not simply moving money around from one line item to another. If agencies have been gutted or don't have the budget, then can't write requests for grant proposals or can't offer what they don't have.

mcpackieh 3y ago

I agree, this is a great time for a peace dividend. The geopolitical situation in Europe and Asia is more stable than ever before. The Soviet Union is gone, NATO seems like an irrelevant relic from the cold war, and China is rapidly liberalizing thanks to free market forces. The rules-based international order has won and history is finally over. Yours truly, Rip Van Winkle.