4 ms·

I have my genetic info on 23andMe and I could not care less. Seriously — what are people going to do with it? It's illegal for insurance companies to discrimi

I have my genetic info on 23andMe and I could not care less. Seriously — what are people going to do with it? It's illegal for insurance companies to discriminate. I'd post it myself on GitHub if anyone showed the slightest interest in using it.

sdfghswe 3y ago
The problem with this situation is A) precisely that you don't know what people are going to do with it, and B) that once it's out there it's impossible to undo that. You're confident enough that nothing can be done, to the point that you'd take the risk for no upside. That... doesn't sound rational to me?
- latchkey 3y ago
  > A) precisely that you don't know what people are going to do with it We know now, they are going to leak it. Everyone is going to know that I'm an Ashkenazi Jew who is more likely going to have blue or brown eyes and hair loss. Whooops.
  - progman32 3y ago
    And we now (hypothetically, in the context of leaking genetic info) know Meryem is Uyghur, James is trans, and Alex is related to a deeply divisive political figure.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      > By day, the government pays me to publish their data.
      - progman32 3y ago
        Yes, my background is in publishing open government data, such as budgets, election results, environmental info, economic data, and government program accountability studies. Not personal information. And yes, I do have strong opinions on how data is to be responsibly managed, hence my participation in this conversation. So, I'm curious if you have additional thoughts on the matter.
        latchkey 3y ago
        I see where you're going with your point, but my gut feeling is none of that data is anything new. We know where Meryem was born (govt records which you probably helped make public), we can read James' twitter feed and we know the relatives of political figures (except for all the illegitimate children). So yea... I'm still not seeing the issue here.
        progman32 3y ago
        If you'd like to make an argument that my work led to the publication of personal records, please make it more explicitly. I'd love to hear it fully articulated. Otherwise it's hard for me to read it as anything beyond a swipe. We are assuming James posted such details to a public twitter feed. That does not account for the others who did not. The issue in Meryem's case is that obtaining birth records is not guaranteed (especially from a foreign country), and that birth location isn't the same as genetic ancestry. Regarding Alex: > except for all the illegitimate children That is part of my point. If my absent parent were actually some famous politician, I would personally not want to have that information leaked. Some might not care - that's great. My point is a simple one - just because having private medical info exfiltrated is not really a big deal for many people, doesn't mean that it's ok to give a pass to the parties responsible for the exfiltration.
        latchkey 3y ago
        Sorry, it isn't a swipe directly intended to be a personal attack of any sort. More that govt's, in general, have a habit of leaking personal information for their own benefit. Your original comment was all about hypotheticals, so yes, it opens up the discussion to assumptions. Agreed that, in general, it sucks that stuff leaks out. That said, every time someone brings up 23andme, it feels like one of those "the govt is going to shut down in a week if we don't do something!" type of headlines that seem to be on repeat... where in the end it turns out that at the last minute, something is done to prevent it, and everything turns into a giant nothing burger.
        3y ago
lm28469 3y ago
> It's illegal for insurance companies to discriminate For how long ? Being jewish on record in Germany in 1930 was fine, in 1940 not so much Data is forever, laws, regulations, governments, &c. aren't
- lm28469 3y ago
  https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1710973418558857397 https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1710973418558857397 well well well
- mistrial9 3y ago
  completely agree, and it was not only Jewish people that were on that list right?
- justrealist 3y ago
  I will bet you $10,000 that it will be illegal to tier health insurance on your genetics in 5 years, 10 years, or whatever timeframe you want. If you want to take that bet, let me know and I will send you my contact info.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Did you also predict, 10 years ago, that so many states would an abortion ? Get back to your crystal ball and tell me when the war in Ukraine will end and how much will a btc be worth in 5 and 10 years If people in this forum believe Musk when he says fully autonomous vehicles will be there in two years (since 2012) and that the AI singularity is coming this decade, the possibility of genetic testing being extended to pre conditions isn't so crazy
    - justrealist 3y ago
      Sounds like easy money then. Are you taking the bet?
      - timeon 3y ago
progman32 3y ago
That's great, feel free to do that. Many others would rather keep their ancestry or genetic attributes out of the public eye. Maybe it's a source of pain for them, or is required for personal safety reasons. And just because something is illegal doesn't mean it won't happen. Legal "workarounds" are a thing. How watertight is the legislation and practice around preventing employers from taking a peek? Or having someone else take a peek for them? A concrete example: What could the consequences in today's USA political climate be of having a massive database be with columns: Firstname, Lastname, y_chromosome_present.
- justrealist 3y ago
  Almost 0, because even in the absence of public data (which is multitudinous) you can infer sex from first name with > 95% confidence.
  - RoyalHenOil 3y ago
    They're talking about trans people.
jstarfish 3y ago
Identity theft, especially with today's deepfakery.
heavyset_go 3y ago
> It's illegal for insurance companies to discriminate. Only for health insurance. Other types of insurance companies are free to use that data to discriminate against you, include life, disability, and long-term care insurance.

sdfghswe 3y ago

The problem with this situation is A) precisely that you don't know what people are going to do with it, and B) that once it's out there it's impossible to undo that. You're confident enough that nothing can be done, to the point that you'd take the risk for no upside. That... doesn't sound rational to me?

latchkey 3y ago
> A) precisely that you don't know what people are going to do with it We know now, they are going to leak it. Everyone is going to know that I'm an Ashkenazi Jew who is more likely going to have blue or brown eyes and hair loss. Whooops.
- progman32 3y ago
  And we now (hypothetically, in the context of leaking genetic info) know Meryem is Uyghur, James is trans, and Alex is related to a deeply divisive political figure.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    > By day, the government pays me to publish their data.
    - progman32 3y ago
      Yes, my background is in publishing open government data, such as budgets, election results, environmental info, economic data, and government program accountability studies. Not personal information. And yes, I do have strong opinions on how data is to be responsibly managed, hence my participation in this conversation. So, I'm curious if you have additional thoughts on the matter.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        I see where you're going with your point, but my gut feeling is none of that data is anything new. We know where Meryem was born (govt records which you probably helped make public), we can read James' twitter feed and we know the relatives of political figures (except for all the illegitimate children). So yea... I'm still not seeing the issue here.
        progman32 3y ago
        If you'd like to make an argument that my work led to the publication of personal records, please make it more explicitly. I'd love to hear it fully articulated. Otherwise it's hard for me to read it as anything beyond a swipe. We are assuming James posted such details to a public twitter feed. That does not account for the others who did not. The issue in Meryem's case is that obtaining birth records is not guaranteed (especially from a foreign country), and that birth location isn't the same as genetic ancestry. Regarding Alex: > except for all the illegitimate children That is part of my point. If my absent parent were actually some famous politician, I would personally not want to have that information leaked. Some might not care - that's great. My point is a simple one - just because having private medical info exfiltrated is not really a big deal for many people, doesn't mean that it's ok to give a pass to the parties responsible for the exfiltration.
        latchkey 3y ago
        Sorry, it isn't a swipe directly intended to be a personal attack of any sort. More that govt's, in general, have a habit of leaking personal information for their own benefit. Your original comment was all about hypotheticals, so yes, it opens up the discussion to assumptions. Agreed that, in general, it sucks that stuff leaks out. That said, every time someone brings up 23andme, it feels like one of those "the govt is going to shut down in a week if we don't do something!" type of headlines that seem to be on repeat... where in the end it turns out that at the last minute, something is done to prevent it, and everything turns into a giant nothing burger.
        3y ago

lm28469 3y ago

> It's illegal for insurance companies to discriminate For how long ? Being jewish on record in Germany in 1930 was fine, in 1940 not so much Data is forever, laws, regulations, governments, &c. aren't

lm28469 3y ago
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1710973418558857397 https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1710973418558857397 well well well
mistrial9 3y ago
completely agree, and it was not only Jewish people that were on that list right?
justrealist 3y ago
I will bet you $10,000 that it will be illegal to tier health insurance on your genetics in 5 years, 10 years, or whatever timeframe you want. If you want to take that bet, let me know and I will send you my contact info.
- lm28469 3y ago
  Did you also predict, 10 years ago, that so many states would an abortion ? Get back to your crystal ball and tell me when the war in Ukraine will end and how much will a btc be worth in 5 and 10 years If people in this forum believe Musk when he says fully autonomous vehicles will be there in two years (since 2012) and that the AI singularity is coming this decade, the possibility of genetic testing being extended to pre conditions isn't so crazy
  - justrealist 3y ago
    Sounds like easy money then. Are you taking the bet?
    - timeon 3y ago

progman32 3y ago

That's great, feel free to do that. Many others would rather keep their ancestry or genetic attributes out of the public eye. Maybe it's a source of pain for them, or is required for personal safety reasons. And just because something is illegal doesn't mean it won't happen. Legal "workarounds" are a thing. How watertight is the legislation and practice around preventing employers from taking a peek? Or having someone else take a peek for them? A concrete example: What could the consequences in today's USA political climate be of having a massive database be with columns: Firstname, Lastname, y_chromosome_present.

justrealist 3y ago
Almost 0, because even in the absence of public data (which is multitudinous) you can infer sex from first name with > 95% confidence.
- RoyalHenOil 3y ago
  They're talking about trans people.

jstarfish 3y ago

Identity theft, especially with today's deepfakery.

heavyset_go 3y ago

> It's illegal for insurance companies to discriminate. Only for health insurance. Other types of insurance companies are free to use that data to discriminate against you, include life, disability, and long-term care insurance.