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India's banks are making $64B from free cashless payments

TekMol 3y ago
The way I understand the article, the banks ain't making $64B from free cashless payments but from other services like non-free cashless payments, loans etc.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Correct. The free payments are a utility offering as part of UPI, banks get to upsell other services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37367855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37367855 ("UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368398 (Related dang macro expansion from id=37367855) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368202 (>50% monthly global Visa transactions)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- grotorea 3y ago
  From what I got from the article the McKinsey survey, this is the actual revenues from transactions fees including but not limited to UPI. Not the adjacent revenues. > Even with a free public utility, India’s payment revenue swelled last year to $64 billion, behind only China, the U.S. and Brazil, and rivalling Japan, according to McKinsey & Co.’s latest global survey[0]. [0] https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/financial-services/our-insights/the-2023-mckinsey-global-payments-report https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/financial-services/our-i...
- ultimoo 3y ago
  The article is poorly written to support a clickbait headline. I found it hard to follow.
1024core 3y ago
Non-paywalled article: https://archive.ph/JHIyh https://archive.ph/JHIyh
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
> Since April, customers dipping into their mobile-phone wallets to settle bills of more than 2,000 rupees ($24) have to bear a maximum 1.1% fee, but only if they are scanning a different platform’s quick-response code. I don't understand why an instantly-settled debit transaction required a percentage based fee, rather than a flat one. Isn't this like an instant wire transaction which are typically flat fee? Do payment processors have to reverse transactions due to fraud?
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  > I don't understand why an instantly-settled debit transaction required a percentage based fee, rather than a flat one. Because they can. Because banks, utilities, insurance companies, etc. all sell products that you in one way or another are required to buy, and as such, they can set the terms of that exchange knowing damn well you'll pay the vast majority of the time.
superkuh 3y ago
>Banks do try to impose some costs on high-volume users, and the government gives them money to promote low-value online transactions and make formal credit available to disadvantaged groups like street vendors. A loss leader for their attempt to completely centralize, monitor, control, and rent back all forms of value exchange between humans. I feel for the Indian people suffering from their government's war on cash.
- spraveenitpro 3y ago
  [dead]
- teitoklien 3y ago
  Huh ? UPI (the payment system) is loved in India, that along with other systems. Have significantly reduced corruption in getting the rural farmers and people in need, access to funds that government allocates to them. Previously it would get stolen by middleman or corrupt politicians, leaving only 10% or sometimes 0% of the original amount meant for them. Now with this system and their introduced zero balance accounts for all, cash gets distributed directly to their biometrically linked accounts. Not everyone are programmers who only care about freedom from misuse of tech, and liberal cash use. These are millions of people being helped by a system where cash was used to fraudulently steal the funds that was rightly meant for them. Its one of the most praised improvements done by government of India in years. Most people here will have something to complain about the government, but almost all of them, agree that this has made people’s lives better. These are instruments after all, it is people who do bad things, they do bad things with cash, and when you replace it with centralized digital money, they’ll do bad things with that too. Nothing different, except now its more advantageous (atleast for the time being).
  - unmole 3y ago
    Jan Dhan has absolutely nothing to do with UPI.
  - superkuh 3y ago
    That's great. I'm glad the loans are working better. But that's just being done as bait for the trap that is the cashless transactions.
spraveenitpro 3y ago
[dead]
known 3y ago
[dead]
peter_d_sherman 3y ago
First CityWide Change Bank 1 - Saturday Night Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM First CityWide Change Bank 2 - Saturday Night Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodqIPMbyUg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodqIPMbyUg

The way I understand the article, the banks ain't making $64B from free cashless payments but from other services like non-free cashless payments, loans etc.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Correct. The free payments are a utility offering as part of UPI, banks get to upsell other services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37367855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37367855 ("UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368398 (Related dang macro expansion from id=37367855) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368202 (>50% monthly global Visa transactions)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
grotorea 3y ago
From what I got from the article the McKinsey survey, this is the actual revenues from transactions fees including but not limited to UPI. Not the adjacent revenues. > Even with a free public utility, India’s payment revenue swelled last year to $64 billion, behind only China, the U.S. and Brazil, and rivalling Japan, according to McKinsey & Co.’s latest global survey[0]. [0] https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/financial-services/our-insights/the-2023-mckinsey-global-payments-report https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/financial-services/our-i...
ultimoo 3y ago
The article is poorly written to support a clickbait headline. I found it hard to follow.

1024core 3y ago

Non-paywalled article: https://archive.ph/JHIyh https://archive.ph/JHIyh

abdullahkhalids 3y ago

> Since April, customers dipping into their mobile-phone wallets to settle bills of more than 2,000 rupees ($24) have to bear a maximum 1.1% fee, but only if they are scanning a different platform’s quick-response code. I don't understand why an instantly-settled debit transaction required a percentage based fee, rather than a flat one. Isn't this like an instant wire transaction which are typically flat fee? Do payment processors have to reverse transactions due to fraud?

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
> I don't understand why an instantly-settled debit transaction required a percentage based fee, rather than a flat one. Because they can. Because banks, utilities, insurance companies, etc. all sell products that you in one way or another are required to buy, and as such, they can set the terms of that exchange knowing damn well you'll pay the vast majority of the time.

superkuh 3y ago

>Banks do try to impose some costs on high-volume users, and the government gives them money to promote low-value online transactions and make formal credit available to disadvantaged groups like street vendors. A loss leader for their attempt to completely centralize, monitor, control, and rent back all forms of value exchange between humans. I feel for the Indian people suffering from their government's war on cash.

spraveenitpro 3y ago
[dead]
teitoklien 3y ago
Huh ? UPI (the payment system) is loved in India, that along with other systems. Have significantly reduced corruption in getting the rural farmers and people in need, access to funds that government allocates to them. Previously it would get stolen by middleman or corrupt politicians, leaving only 10% or sometimes 0% of the original amount meant for them. Now with this system and their introduced zero balance accounts for all, cash gets distributed directly to their biometrically linked accounts. Not everyone are programmers who only care about freedom from misuse of tech, and liberal cash use. These are millions of people being helped by a system where cash was used to fraudulently steal the funds that was rightly meant for them. Its one of the most praised improvements done by government of India in years. Most people here will have something to complain about the government, but almost all of them, agree that this has made people’s lives better. These are instruments after all, it is people who do bad things, they do bad things with cash, and when you replace it with centralized digital money, they’ll do bad things with that too. Nothing different, except now its more advantageous (atleast for the time being).
- unmole 3y ago
  Jan Dhan has absolutely nothing to do with UPI.
- superkuh 3y ago
  That's great. I'm glad the loans are working better. But that's just being done as bait for the trap that is the cashless transactions.

spraveenitpro 3y ago

[dead]

known 3y ago

[dead]

peter_d_sherman 3y ago

First CityWide Change Bank 1 - Saturday Night Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM First CityWide Change Bank 2 - Saturday Night Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodqIPMbyUg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodqIPMbyUg