4 ms·

I've wondered why microsoft hasn't done this already. The $oftware boys already have a full explainer about why $aa$ is the best thing since open source, so wh

I've wondered why microsoft hasn't done this already. The $oftware boys already have a full explainer about why $aa$ is the best thing since open source, so why shouldn't Microsoft jump on board too? C'mon SaaS devs, tell me again about value add and how you love paying monthly for the software you use...

pjmlp 3y ago
The alternative is that everyone thinks they can code an alternative during a weekend.
- horsawlarway 3y ago
  Nah - the alternative is choosing software that is stable and open. Not some crazy "not made in house - gonna code it myself" crap... that seems like some weird personal thing. Approach software as a set of tools, with the expectation that you must learn and master its use, but then you will be functional and productive for a long time. That's what stand-alone installers or self-hosted alternatives are. They require more learning, but they don't sell you out, close down, jack up the price, or turn off features because it's "not generating new users". They also don't randomly rework the UI nearly as often because "if it's not shiny we can't sell it". But they do require more work and learning up front. For me, at least... that tradeoff is a clear and easy win. --- Good software is like good woodworking tools - hard to master, but very productive once you're there. SaaS is always the opposite: Super easy to start, incredibly frustrating to be a power user. Saas doesn't want power users - it wants more subscriptions.
  - libraryatnight 3y ago
    I agree. Stallman said something like when you don't control the tools you use to do work you don't control your life. It's true.
  - oblio 3y ago
    > Approach software as a set of tools, with the expectation that you must learn and master its use, but then you will be functional and productive for a long time. This does not scale to end users.
    - ndriscoll 3y ago
      It seems to work with word processors, spreadsheets, image and video editors, CAD, animation, probably more. Software people use to accomplish a task.
      - oblio 3y ago
        The first 2, LOL. People just click some buttons and frequently create abominations with them. They in no way, shape or form, "master them". Image editors and the like are pro tools, not mass market tools. You either use them well or you don't have a job. If you're wondering why word processors and spreadsheets don't count is that for most jobs you just use them incidentally, it's not your day job. And there is a very small minority that masters them, but it's just that, a minority.
    - k9unit 3y ago
      Are you referring to people not having the desire or time to learn how to set up these types of things, but want to use them? The solution is... centralization, on a smaller scale. Maybe that's a home network admin, or a whole street, neighborhood, city, community. I don't really know. It's not reasonable to think everyone needs or wants to manage their network and services, of course. The cost to ensure everyone has this specialized knowledge is terribly high, it will waste what else they could have known instead. Now to provide these kinds of services as a city or community is certainly not free, even if the software is free. It costs people's time, experience, and knowledge. It requires powerful enough servers to handle requests and storage for everything. Another thing to mention is that these open source services are probably full of very critical and damaging exploits, but they are not seen or cared about yet because these services are not mainstream popular or often not public facing at all. Popular open source services have had many of their high level exploits discovered, and closed source things are scrutinized differently.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by this, especially in the context of something as monumental as Microsoft Windows. But just in general, how does a subscription model prevent naive competitors from trying to make an alternative?
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Fear not, 2024 will be the Year of Linux Desktop. /s
donmcronald 3y ago
> I've wondered why microsoft hasn't done this already. Step 1 was to make TPMs ubiquitous. As soon as everyone's computer can make attestations on behalf of (or, more accurately, against) them, then it's game over. I bet Microsoft starts splitting out app features and charging for them individually similar to how Adobe does with Acrobat.

pjmlp 3y ago

The alternative is that everyone thinks they can code an alternative during a weekend.

horsawlarway 3y ago
Nah - the alternative is choosing software that is stable and open. Not some crazy "not made in house - gonna code it myself" crap... that seems like some weird personal thing. Approach software as a set of tools, with the expectation that you must learn and master its use, but then you will be functional and productive for a long time. That's what stand-alone installers or self-hosted alternatives are. They require more learning, but they don't sell you out, close down, jack up the price, or turn off features because it's "not generating new users". They also don't randomly rework the UI nearly as often because "if it's not shiny we can't sell it". But they do require more work and learning up front. For me, at least... that tradeoff is a clear and easy win. --- Good software is like good woodworking tools - hard to master, but very productive once you're there. SaaS is always the opposite: Super easy to start, incredibly frustrating to be a power user. Saas doesn't want power users - it wants more subscriptions.
- libraryatnight 3y ago
  I agree. Stallman said something like when you don't control the tools you use to do work you don't control your life. It's true.
- oblio 3y ago
  > Approach software as a set of tools, with the expectation that you must learn and master its use, but then you will be functional and productive for a long time. This does not scale to end users.
  - ndriscoll 3y ago
    It seems to work with word processors, spreadsheets, image and video editors, CAD, animation, probably more. Software people use to accomplish a task.
    - oblio 3y ago
      The first 2, LOL. People just click some buttons and frequently create abominations with them. They in no way, shape or form, "master them". Image editors and the like are pro tools, not mass market tools. You either use them well or you don't have a job. If you're wondering why word processors and spreadsheets don't count is that for most jobs you just use them incidentally, it's not your day job. And there is a very small minority that masters them, but it's just that, a minority.
  - k9unit 3y ago
    Are you referring to people not having the desire or time to learn how to set up these types of things, but want to use them? The solution is... centralization, on a smaller scale. Maybe that's a home network admin, or a whole street, neighborhood, city, community. I don't really know. It's not reasonable to think everyone needs or wants to manage their network and services, of course. The cost to ensure everyone has this specialized knowledge is terribly high, it will waste what else they could have known instead. Now to provide these kinds of services as a city or community is certainly not free, even if the software is free. It costs people's time, experience, and knowledge. It requires powerful enough servers to handle requests and storage for everything. Another thing to mention is that these open source services are probably full of very critical and damaging exploits, but they are not seen or cared about yet because these services are not mainstream popular or often not public facing at all. Popular open source services have had many of their high level exploits discovered, and closed source things are scrutinized differently.
karaterobot 3y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by this, especially in the context of something as monumental as Microsoft Windows. But just in general, how does a subscription model prevent naive competitors from trying to make an alternative?
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Fear not, 2024 will be the Year of Linux Desktop. /s

donmcronald 3y ago

> I've wondered why microsoft hasn't done this already. Step 1 was to make TPMs ubiquitous. As soon as everyone's computer can make attestations on behalf of (or, more accurately, against) them, then it's game over. I bet Microsoft starts splitting out app features and charging for them individually similar to how Adobe does with Acrobat.