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It's not like we're going to have any choice in the matter. Vast regions of the world are quickly becoming uninhabitable both because of climate change and of t

by carlob 3y ago

It's not like we're going to have any choice in the matter. Vast regions of the world are quickly becoming uninhabitable both because of climate change and of the damage done during colonialism and its political consequences. We can either choose to open the doors willingly or they are going to be blown open. I personally think it would be more ethical and pracical to open them now, but I seem to be in the minority.

logicchains 3y ago
>Vast regions of the world are quickly becoming uninhabitable Have you got any concrete examples? The temperature range for human habitability is pretty wide; the temperature regularly gets up to 50 degrees in summer in the Gulf States (like UAE and Saudi) yet the quality of life there is quite high, in spite of it being a literal desert. Most of the refugees entering Europe are fleeing good ol' fashioned wars, not environmental catastrophes.
- carlob 3y ago
  You don't need to have a very high average. It's sufficient to have a high wet bulb temperature for a few days to kill off large portions of the population. Also consider that Africa is going to represent most of the demographic growth of the world in the next few decades. And consider the effects of all this combined with political instability you quickly get into a situation like the floods in Libya.
blibble 3y ago
> We can either choose to open the doors willingly or they are going to be blown open. I'm afraid the reality is likely to be that once the doors are blown open, electorates will vote for people that will man them with machine guns
leetcrew 3y ago
> We can either choose to open the doors willingly or they are going to be blown open. why do you think this? it's next to impossible to completely stop piecemeal border crossings. but beyond a certain scale, it becomes something that militaries can oppose directly. are you suggesting the europeans would not have the stomach for military action against migrants, or that the migrants would somehow defeat them in sheer numbers? if it's the former, I would point out that were are already seeing questionable events with migrant ships in the mediterranean.

by carlob 3y ago

logicchains 3y ago

>Vast regions of the world are quickly becoming uninhabitable Have you got any concrete examples? The temperature range for human habitability is pretty wide; the temperature regularly gets up to 50 degrees in summer in the Gulf States (like UAE and Saudi) yet the quality of life there is quite high, in spite of it being a literal desert. Most of the refugees entering Europe are fleeing good ol' fashioned wars, not environmental catastrophes.

carlob 3y ago
You don't need to have a very high average. It's sufficient to have a high wet bulb temperature for a few days to kill off large portions of the population. Also consider that Africa is going to represent most of the demographic growth of the world in the next few decades. And consider the effects of all this combined with political instability you quickly get into a situation like the floods in Libya.

blibble 3y ago

> We can either choose to open the doors willingly or they are going to be blown open. I'm afraid the reality is likely to be that once the doors are blown open, electorates will vote for people that will man them with machine guns

leetcrew 3y ago

> We can either choose to open the doors willingly or they are going to be blown open. why do you think this? it's next to impossible to completely stop piecemeal border crossings. but beyond a certain scale, it becomes something that militaries can oppose directly. are you suggesting the europeans would not have the stomach for military action against migrants, or that the migrants would somehow defeat them in sheer numbers? if it's the former, I would point out that were are already seeing questionable events with migrant ships in the mediterranean.