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> Middle income America has cheaper housing, food and durables with higher wages than middle income in Western Europe. Is food really cheaper? That's not what

> Middle income America has cheaper housing, food and durables with higher wages than middle income in Western Europe. Is food really cheaper? That's not what I heard but I don't know. But that's a weird take. Quality of life is not entirely dominated by your purchase power if you have enough to sustain life. What about having time for culture, friends, family, quality of the environment, safety, access to healthcare etc. The only exception may be housing. Some cities here (in europe) have an absolutely incredible quality of life and I would never factor in the price of groceries because it doesn't matter. Everyone in the middle class can afford groceries. Housing maybe, in some cities it's a real issue, but I personally don't care as much because I don't really need an abundant apartment so I always find something. I want beautiful cafes just around the corner, vibrant, active culture from fine art to independent, small artists and beautiful parks and buildings. I would never trade it for a big car and a big house in some suburb. A friend of mine is working 32h a week and I am starting to think that he has figured out how to really improve his quality of live. On a programmers wage you're still middle class, you just earn so much. And he's travelling so much, meeting friends, getting into hobbies or just enjoying a really nice coffee in a cafe, taking in the beautiful autumn lights, while everyone else is working that you're always a but envious.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
In which country is your friend working?
- LeanderK 3y ago
  germany, but in a more mature startup and not an old, big company
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Can I ask which city that is where your friend is enjoying life?
tyjen 3y ago
Speaking from an American food perspective, my family avoids grocery stores and unhealthy processed foods. We receive almost all our food directly from farms and fishermen, the other products we buy wholesale from smaller companies that emphasize quality and lower added costs. For example, a 25 kg bag of oats for $60. We've substantially improved our quality of life and lowered our costs. Like with many areas within American society, the quality is there if you're willing to figure it out.
- brnt 3y ago
  That's great but of course the problems is that for Americans that work 2-3 jobs and commute by bus there isnt much time for cooking, let alone scouring their area for good unprocessed foods. As always, only the rich can afford the cheapest-over-time options.
kwhitefoot 3y ago
Food worth eating is not much cheaper in the US than in most of Europe and much harder to find. I remember my wife being very disappointed with the quality of the produce in supermarkets like Harris Teeter in Cary NC when we were there for a few months some years ago. And that was the best supermarket in the area. And when it comes to basics like bread it seems that most of what the US eats would qualify as cake in Europe because of the sugar content.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

In which country is your friend working?

LeanderK 3y ago
germany, but in a more mature startup and not an old, big company
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Can I ask which city that is where your friend is enjoying life?

tyjen 3y ago

Speaking from an American food perspective, my family avoids grocery stores and unhealthy processed foods. We receive almost all our food directly from farms and fishermen, the other products we buy wholesale from smaller companies that emphasize quality and lower added costs. For example, a 25 kg bag of oats for $60. We've substantially improved our quality of life and lowered our costs. Like with many areas within American society, the quality is there if you're willing to figure it out.

brnt 3y ago
That's great but of course the problems is that for Americans that work 2-3 jobs and commute by bus there isnt much time for cooking, let alone scouring their area for good unprocessed foods. As always, only the rich can afford the cheapest-over-time options.

kwhitefoot 3y ago

Food worth eating is not much cheaper in the US than in most of Europe and much harder to find. I remember my wife being very disappointed with the quality of the produce in supermarkets like Harris Teeter in Cary NC when we were there for a few months some years ago. And that was the best supermarket in the area. And when it comes to basics like bread it seems that most of what the US eats would qualify as cake in Europe because of the sugar content.