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>For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. There have

>For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. There have been a few, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Ressa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Ressa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA

imjonse 3y ago
To be fair, Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime. And Maria Ressa seems anti-Duterte, and pro-US if I read correctly.
- LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
  Right, Mandela got it when he was being conciliatory to the government and its Western support, with other ANC elements being less so. The same with Arafat - he was conciliatory to Israel and its western support at Oslo, with Hamas and the PFLP being less so. Both were not fighting when.they got the prize, but being conciliatory.
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    I don't agree that Arafat was fighting any less than Narges Mohammadi when he got the Nobel Peace Prize. He didn't get the prize for surrendering (neither did Mandela but he got the prize after he had already won).
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  >Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime True >Maria Ressa seems anti-Duterte, and pro-US if I read correctly Duterte is/was a Trump style figure in a country that houses U.S military bases. If Pakistan counts then the Philippines must count as well.
  - imjonse 3y ago
    I mean the Philippines is traditionally a US ally, but Duterte both openly criticised the US and tried to get closer to China. And Maria Ressa is definitely not an anti-US or anti-Western activist.
    - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
      >but Duterte both openly criticised the US and tried to get closer to China Yes he did for a moment before completely reversing course. https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/11/dutertes-dalliance-with-china-is-over.html https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/11/dutertes-dalliance-with-ch... Pakistan's various leaders on the other hand have criticised the U.S far more harshly and far more persistently over the years. They have also had close relations with China for decades.
      - imjonse 3y ago
        There are no peace Nobel prizes for such Pakistanis though. Malala got it for figthing for education of young girls. Although I no longer remember how Pakistan got into the discussion and if we're arguing or agreeing :)
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > To be fair, Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime. To be even more fair, Mandela wasn’t the first anti-apartheid Nobel Peace Prize award, and Albert John Lutuli (awarded 1960) and Archbishop Tutu (awarded 1984) got it for fighting apartheid when the US and UK were tacit (active, of the regime if not the apartheid policy specifically, in 1960) supporters of the apartheid regime (Reagan’s reversal on his “constructive engagement” approach came inmediately after Archbishop Tutu's address to Congress and subsequent meeting with the President after the award.. And Dr. King (awarded 1964) got it for his opposition to the parallel policy in America.
  - imjonse 3y ago
    You are right. Although those recipients were clearly in favor of non-violent fighting for human rights and were not explicitly anti-western or anti-US (the definitions of non-recipients this subthread started with) When Dr King began opposing the Vietnam war instead of simply fighting for equal rights at home he became a larger menace.
    - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
      The definition of non-recipients was never tied to violence. The examples given were Edward Snowden, Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning, all peaceful activists or journalists.
      - imjonse 3y ago
        Media made sure these three were tied to violence.
shihab 3y ago
You're mistaken about Yasser Arafat. He wasn't awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting Israeli apartheid; rather, he received it for ceasing that fight in line with the Oslo Accords- a deal brokered by the United States. Here's a visual representation of why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#/media/File:Bill_Clinton,_Yitzhak_Rabin,_Yasser_Arafat_at_the_White_House_1993-09-13.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#/media/File:Bill_...
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  Arafat was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to make peace in the middle east (as were Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin), not for ceasing his political fight or for giving up his ambitions. He said: "Peace is in our interest: as only in an atmosphere of just peace shall the Palestinian people achieve their legitimate ambition for independence and sovereignty." Narges Mohammadi's fight is a peaceful one as well.
  - shihab 3y ago
    I do not disagree that this was a peaceful move, I rather disagree that Yasser Arafat is an example of someone getting the peace prize despite acting against American/Western interest.
    - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
      The claim that I responded to was essentially that only opponents of anti-Western regimes ever get the Nobel Peace Price. Arafat is a counter example to that. Arafat's decision to pursue his goals with political means is neither pro- nor anti-Western/Israeli. It was meant to be pro-Palestinian. Hardliners on both sides hated the idea and unfortunately they have prevailed.

imjonse 3y ago

To be fair, Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime. And Maria Ressa seems anti-Duterte, and pro-US if I read correctly.

LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
Right, Mandela got it when he was being conciliatory to the government and its Western support, with other ANC elements being less so. The same with Arafat - he was conciliatory to Israel and its western support at Oslo, with Hamas and the PFLP being less so. Both were not fighting when.they got the prize, but being conciliatory.
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  I don't agree that Arafat was fighting any less than Narges Mohammadi when he got the Nobel Peace Prize. He didn't get the prize for surrendering (neither did Mandela but he got the prize after he had already won).
fauigerzigerk 3y ago
>Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime True >Maria Ressa seems anti-Duterte, and pro-US if I read correctly Duterte is/was a Trump style figure in a country that houses U.S military bases. If Pakistan counts then the Philippines must count as well.
- imjonse 3y ago
  I mean the Philippines is traditionally a US ally, but Duterte both openly criticised the US and tried to get closer to China. And Maria Ressa is definitely not an anti-US or anti-Western activist.
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    >but Duterte both openly criticised the US and tried to get closer to China Yes he did for a moment before completely reversing course. https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/11/dutertes-dalliance-with-china-is-over.html https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/11/dutertes-dalliance-with-ch... Pakistan's various leaders on the other hand have criticised the U.S far more harshly and far more persistently over the years. They have also had close relations with China for decades.
    - imjonse 3y ago
      There are no peace Nobel prizes for such Pakistanis though. Malala got it for figthing for education of young girls. Although I no longer remember how Pakistan got into the discussion and if we're arguing or agreeing :)
dragonwriter 3y ago
> To be fair, Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime. To be even more fair, Mandela wasn’t the first anti-apartheid Nobel Peace Prize award, and Albert John Lutuli (awarded 1960) and Archbishop Tutu (awarded 1984) got it for fighting apartheid when the US and UK were tacit (active, of the regime if not the apartheid policy specifically, in 1960) supporters of the apartheid regime (Reagan’s reversal on his “constructive engagement” approach came inmediately after Archbishop Tutu's address to Congress and subsequent meeting with the President after the award.. And Dr. King (awarded 1964) got it for his opposition to the parallel policy in America.
- imjonse 3y ago
  You are right. Although those recipients were clearly in favor of non-violent fighting for human rights and were not explicitly anti-western or anti-US (the definitions of non-recipients this subthread started with) When Dr King began opposing the Vietnam war instead of simply fighting for equal rights at home he became a larger menace.
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    The definition of non-recipients was never tied to violence. The examples given were Edward Snowden, Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning, all peaceful activists or journalists.
    - imjonse 3y ago
      Media made sure these three were tied to violence.

shihab 3y ago

You're mistaken about Yasser Arafat. He wasn't awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting Israeli apartheid; rather, he received it for ceasing that fight in line with the Oslo Accords- a deal brokered by the United States. Here's a visual representation of why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#/media/File:Bill_Clinton,_Yitzhak_Rabin,_Yasser_Arafat_at_the_White_House_1993-09-13.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#/media/File:Bill_...

fauigerzigerk 3y ago
Arafat was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to make peace in the middle east (as were Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin), not for ceasing his political fight or for giving up his ambitions. He said: "Peace is in our interest: as only in an atmosphere of just peace shall the Palestinian people achieve their legitimate ambition for independence and sovereignty." Narges Mohammadi's fight is a peaceful one as well.
- shihab 3y ago
  I do not disagree that this was a peaceful move, I rather disagree that Yasser Arafat is an example of someone getting the peace prize despite acting against American/Western interest.
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    The claim that I responded to was essentially that only opponents of anti-Western regimes ever get the Nobel Peace Price. Arafat is a counter example to that. Arafat's decision to pursue his goals with political means is neither pro- nor anti-Western/Israeli. It was meant to be pro-Palestinian. Hardliners on both sides hated the idea and unfortunately they have prevailed.