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All those things are indeed possible, and keeping an open mind is generally positive. That said in the specific case of the formations in Bosnia, reputable geol

All those things are indeed possible, and keeping an open mind is generally positive. That said in the specific case of the formations in Bosnia, reputable geologists have investigated them, and have said that they are well-understood natural formations. The flatirons in Bosnia are no more human structures than the ones in Colorado or Texas. A smart person once said: if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out, and another smart person wrote a song with that name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w

keepamovin 3y ago
Sure, I wasn't referring specifically to Bosnia mentioned here: I don't know much about that case really, I haven't deeply looked at it, at least recently, and I don't know. I'm glad to see you are in favor of keeping an open mind, but saddened to see you would want to put limits on your intellectual exploration! I generally think that's a poor idea. Many reasons, here's two: 1) what better adventure is there? How fun it is to explore curiously some out there possibilities outside of what we know! You might just discover something incredible, and true. It may even be useful! Onward! Haha :) 2) It's kind of arrogant to think, 'well I can't be "too open" otherwise I might consider some things that are wrong.' To me that reeks of orthodoxy and this idea that humans can proscribe what is possible for the universe, rather than standing in awe of it and in humility at our ignorance of all the things we don't know. I think that humility, ignorance and awe is ultimately liberating, and the intellectually honest thing to do, and not just honest, but the most useful position to take, the scientifically ignorant one. I see your "smart person", and I raise you one, haha! :) One smart person recently said: "Science is nothing more than the invention of ignorance." I encourage you to meditate deeply upon that. I'll go watch your youtube video now! :) edit: Oh Tim Minchin is often very funny, but I find him off here. Out of touch and a little flat. I also like George Carlin, I recommend you check him out if you haven't. I think comedians can offer us insights, but in general they should not be used as guides as to what's possible, nor as proscribers of your intellectual curiosity. If you let them do that, you're basically subscribing to a kind of orthodoxy that many comedians are by definition against, being free, lateral thinkers in many (but perhaps not all!) ways. The sad thing about Minchin's stance above is he couches it in this irrefutable way, when it's really not. A lot of the things he tries to make out, as unsubstantiated are in fact very substantiated. But sadly it feels as if you would only seek to mock those things, as Minchin tries to, so perhaps you're not the best one to have that discussion with now, I guess? Haha :) I also wonder if Minchin is not subtly lampooning the stance he merely pretends to embody there? It would be in character for him. And the way he rapid-fires the overly formal verbiage, seems to suggest satire, even mockery of it. At least I think we should remain open to the possibility that's what he's doing! Or at the very least perhaps not make much of the stance of someone whose job it is as court jester to basically satirize everything! :) hahahaha But thank you for reminding me of him. I'm a fan of that duet he did with Missy Higgins. You should check that out!
- eigenket 3y ago
  I think describing my view as putting limits on intellectual exploration is unfair. Intellectual exploration has been done, they went and looked at the formations in Bosnia and were like "yeah those are flatirons, just like the ones in the USA and other places". What you're arguing for is for me to ignore the results of the intellectual exploration after it has been done.
  - keepamovin 3y ago
    No, no no, I'm speaking not of Bosnia here but in general. Your view may very well be different in general, I'm glad if it is. It just seemed that way here. Did I misunderstand you? I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I think you could be clearer about how you feel, tho.
    - eigenket 3y ago
      The way I feel is that being open minded and intellectually free is great, its very interesting and you can learn many cool things. However once you've learned those things its also important to be clear about them. Lets take something like evolution as an example. There isn't really anything to be gained by trying to straight up falsify evolution any more, we're very very confident that it happens. The "right" approach is to stop being "open" to the idea that evolution doesn't happen, but instead be "open" to exploring interesting and cool stuff based one evolution (how does it happen, what drives it, what are the mechanisms etc). Being "open", in the sense of thinking about evolution not being a real thing, actually closes you to exploring these cool ideas based on evolution.
      - keepamovin 3y ago
        I totally agree! Like using what you've already learned as a scaffold that you can then climb higher on. I don't think you should limit stuff with that, but that you can then go further is great! Yes, but I also think your example, is unintentionally more nuanced than intended perhaps--in that evolution being a thing does not preclude intelligent design. The simple counter is we are already intelligently designing new organisms which themselves were developed at least in part, and continue to develop, at least in part, through the contribution of evolution. I think that's also a nuanced point: once you learn one thing, and it has good explanatory power, it doesn't have to be the only thing in operation. We can take that further and say, it's possible that humans are the product of intelligent design to some extent. One way to phrase that is: ETs manipulated DNA in already evolving primates to create homo sapiens sapiens

keepamovin 3y ago

Sure, I wasn't referring specifically to Bosnia mentioned here: I don't know much about that case really, I haven't deeply looked at it, at least recently, and I don't know. I'm glad to see you are in favor of keeping an open mind, but saddened to see you would want to put limits on your intellectual exploration! I generally think that's a poor idea. Many reasons, here's two: 1) what better adventure is there? How fun it is to explore curiously some out there possibilities outside of what we know! You might just discover something incredible, and true. It may even be useful! Onward! Haha :) 2) It's kind of arrogant to think, 'well I can't be "too open" otherwise I might consider some things that are wrong.' To me that reeks of orthodoxy and this idea that humans can proscribe what is possible for the universe, rather than standing in awe of it and in humility at our ignorance of all the things we don't know. I think that humility, ignorance and awe is ultimately liberating, and the intellectually honest thing to do, and not just honest, but the most useful position to take, the scientifically ignorant one. I see your "smart person", and I raise you one, haha! :) One smart person recently said: "Science is nothing more than the invention of ignorance." I encourage you to meditate deeply upon that. I'll go watch your youtube video now! :) edit: Oh Tim Minchin is often very funny, but I find him off here. Out of touch and a little flat. I also like George Carlin, I recommend you check him out if you haven't. I think comedians can offer us insights, but in general they should not be used as guides as to what's possible, nor as proscribers of your intellectual curiosity. If you let them do that, you're basically subscribing to a kind of orthodoxy that many comedians are by definition against, being free, lateral thinkers in many (but perhaps not all!) ways. The sad thing about Minchin's stance above is he couches it in this irrefutable way, when it's really not. A lot of the things he tries to make out, as unsubstantiated are in fact very substantiated. But sadly it feels as if you would only seek to mock those things, as Minchin tries to, so perhaps you're not the best one to have that discussion with now, I guess? Haha :) I also wonder if Minchin is not subtly lampooning the stance he merely pretends to embody there? It would be in character for him. And the way he rapid-fires the overly formal verbiage, seems to suggest satire, even mockery of it. At least I think we should remain open to the possibility that's what he's doing! Or at the very least perhaps not make much of the stance of someone whose job it is as court jester to basically satirize everything! :) hahahaha But thank you for reminding me of him. I'm a fan of that duet he did with Missy Higgins. You should check that out!

eigenket 3y ago
I think describing my view as putting limits on intellectual exploration is unfair. Intellectual exploration has been done, they went and looked at the formations in Bosnia and were like "yeah those are flatirons, just like the ones in the USA and other places". What you're arguing for is for me to ignore the results of the intellectual exploration after it has been done.
- keepamovin 3y ago
  No, no no, I'm speaking not of Bosnia here but in general. Your view may very well be different in general, I'm glad if it is. It just seemed that way here. Did I misunderstand you? I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I think you could be clearer about how you feel, tho.
  - eigenket 3y ago
    The way I feel is that being open minded and intellectually free is great, its very interesting and you can learn many cool things. However once you've learned those things its also important to be clear about them. Lets take something like evolution as an example. There isn't really anything to be gained by trying to straight up falsify evolution any more, we're very very confident that it happens. The "right" approach is to stop being "open" to the idea that evolution doesn't happen, but instead be "open" to exploring interesting and cool stuff based one evolution (how does it happen, what drives it, what are the mechanisms etc). Being "open", in the sense of thinking about evolution not being a real thing, actually closes you to exploring these cool ideas based on evolution.
    - keepamovin 3y ago
      I totally agree! Like using what you've already learned as a scaffold that you can then climb higher on. I don't think you should limit stuff with that, but that you can then go further is great! Yes, but I also think your example, is unintentionally more nuanced than intended perhaps--in that evolution being a thing does not preclude intelligent design. The simple counter is we are already intelligently designing new organisms which themselves were developed at least in part, and continue to develop, at least in part, through the contribution of evolution. I think that's also a nuanced point: once you learn one thing, and it has good explanatory power, it doesn't have to be the only thing in operation. We can take that further and say, it's possible that humans are the product of intelligent design to some extent. One way to phrase that is: ETs manipulated DNA in already evolving primates to create homo sapiens sapiens