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Why is it that Samsung needs an agreement with Google in the first place? Is it about a permission to use androing with Google services or does Samsung want to

Why is it that Samsung needs an agreement with Google in the first place? Is it about a permission to use androing with Google services or does Samsung want to be paid for setting Google's search engine as default? The answer to this question is really important, because if the first is true, Samsung is essentially forced to enter into whatever agreement Google puts in front of them (the alternative is it's own flavor of Android a-la Huawei). However, if the latter is true Samsung is complicit in this monopolist practice. Does anyone know which one is it?

makeitdouble 3y ago
Google services sure come with binding conditions on what they can do with android and in particular what they can't do with the search bar (get rid of it, put another search engine etc.) The EU is after them on it, but I don't remember a clear result yet: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_1492 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_... [edit] Google was found guilty and made some promises in 2019, but I'm not sure we've seen any change in substance ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_cases_against_Google_by_the_European_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_cases_against_Goog...
- Lorkki 3y ago
  I switched to a new Android phone just weeks ago. Choosing the search engine was part of the onboarding wizard.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Thanks. BTW does it change what happens with the home search widget when you run voice regonition or other features that usually run the assistant ? Come to think of it, Huawei or Xiaomi phones must come with their app storr, so the real test would be to see what defaults they have in EU ?
    - jeroenhd 3y ago
      After breaking my Google Assistant with a custom ROM, I unintentionally found out that yes, there is a setting for the default assistant app in the settings. I don't know if any actual alternatives exist, but you can definitely change the default settings. My issue was that Google Assistant didn't realise that it was set as the default, and my attempts to launch it just brought up a prompt to configure it as the default assistant. The Pixel launcher is deeply integrated with Google, so that doesn't support switching search providers I think. You can install any other launcher you want if you dislike searching through Google from the home screen.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> Why is it that Samsung needs an agreement with Google in the first place? They can't make Android devices without accepting Google's terms. Amazon attempted to sell phones with their own fork of Android without permission, but didn't have much luck. Interestingly, Amazon had to find a manufacturing partner that didn't already make Android phones for anyone, because one of the terms of Google's agreement was that you couldn't make any devices running a fork of Android for anyone.
- gundmc 3y ago
  Isn't it technically use of the Play Store that requires accepting Google's terms?
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    Not "just" the Play Store. Apps >If a company does ever manage to fork AOSP, clone the Google apps, and create a viable competitor to Google's Android, it's going to have a hard time getting anyone to build a device for it. In an open market, it would be as easy as calling up an Android OEM and convincing them to switch, but Google is out to make life a little more difficult than that. Google's real power in mobile comes from control of the Google apps—mainly Gmail, Maps, Google Now, Hangouts, YouTube, and the Play Store. These are Android's killer apps, and the big (and small) manufacturers want these apps on their phones. Since these apps are not open source, they need to be licensed from Google. It is at this point that you start picturing a scene out of The Godfather, because these apps aren't going to come without some requirements attached. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on... and services as well.
    - jeroenhd 3y ago
      What does "manufacturer" mean in this context? I don't think Qualcom or Foxconn can give a rat's ass about whether you pack Gmail or not.
    - smallerfish 3y ago
crossroadsguy 3y ago
> the alternative is it's own flavor of Android a-la Huawei Or one that couple of major OEMs drive. But they won't do that. That's just not gonna happen. One, software is anything but Samsung's forte, they suck at it. They are much worse at Software than even Apple is. Second, Samsung is not a very smart company, it's an extremely "hard working" company without the smarts (yes, I know). But they are smart enough to know their weakness. They also can't trust too many companies, or other OEMs. In the Google-Samsung relationship they know that Google needs a company like Samsung with its strengths to churn out millions of devices to millions of people where they can put their OS and track every breath these users take. So it works for both of them. A fee for a default search engine or so I think comes secondary. Samsung also knows that the service suit Google offers - Gmail, Google Maps, YouTube, Docs etc it is like "the mail", "the map"…. etc in most of the world and moving away from Google blessed Android is not going to sit well with "their target audience" (I had to put quotes for emphasis lest some noble HNer jumps saying they have been hosting their own email since before they could tie their shoe laces). Samsung "own mobile OS" shenanigans? Nope, no one at Google or at Samsung believed even for a moment it was going anywhere.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- namdnay 3y ago
  > They are much worse at Software than even Apple ?? > But they are smart enough to know their weakness If they were they wouldn't have insisted on building their UI layer on top of stock android
  - ladyanita22 3y ago
    They need to differentiate, but given Samsung's clearly lackluster track record at OSes, it's obvious they're very bad at software and they know it. Plus their Android flavor (One UI) is extremely underperforming, even when compared to the Chinese OEMs. If we compared it against the cleanliness of Pixel software, you'd inmediately see Google is simply much, much better than Samsung at software even with the same foundations.
jeroenhd 3y ago
Based on this excerpt: > was apparently the only way that phone manufacturers like Samsung could implement Branch without violating their revenue share agreements (RSAs) with Google, which he understood to require that Google be the only “web-connected” search function pre-loaded onto a device. I would assume that Google pays back some of the ad revenue it collects through search to Samsung. I don't think Google will demand special permission to make them the default search provider, but they certainly won't pay you for it unless you sign a contract.
philistine 3y ago
Your question rests on marketing pablum that you swallowed whole; that Android is open-source and that anyone can freely use it. The reality is that if you want the crown jewels of Android, its app store, you need to sign a very monopolistic agreement with Google.

makeitdouble 3y ago

Google services sure come with binding conditions on what they can do with android and in particular what they can't do with the search bar (get rid of it, put another search engine etc.) The EU is after them on it, but I don't remember a clear result yet: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_1492 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_... [edit] Google was found guilty and made some promises in 2019, but I'm not sure we've seen any change in substance ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_cases_against_Google_by_the_European_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_cases_against_Goog...

Lorkki 3y ago
I switched to a new Android phone just weeks ago. Choosing the search engine was part of the onboarding wizard.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Thanks. BTW does it change what happens with the home search widget when you run voice regonition or other features that usually run the assistant ? Come to think of it, Huawei or Xiaomi phones must come with their app storr, so the real test would be to see what defaults they have in EU ?
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    After breaking my Google Assistant with a custom ROM, I unintentionally found out that yes, there is a setting for the default assistant app in the settings. I don't know if any actual alternatives exist, but you can definitely change the default settings. My issue was that Google Assistant didn't realise that it was set as the default, and my attempts to launch it just brought up a prompt to configure it as the default assistant. The Pixel launcher is deeply integrated with Google, so that doesn't support switching search providers I think. You can install any other launcher you want if you dislike searching through Google from the home screen.

GeekyBear 3y ago

> Why is it that Samsung needs an agreement with Google in the first place? They can't make Android devices without accepting Google's terms. Amazon attempted to sell phones with their own fork of Android without permission, but didn't have much luck. Interestingly, Amazon had to find a manufacturing partner that didn't already make Android phones for anyone, because one of the terms of Google's agreement was that you couldn't make any devices running a fork of Android for anyone.

gundmc 3y ago
Isn't it technically use of the Play Store that requires accepting Google's terms?
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  Not "just" the Play Store. Apps >If a company does ever manage to fork AOSP, clone the Google apps, and create a viable competitor to Google's Android, it's going to have a hard time getting anyone to build a device for it. In an open market, it would be as easy as calling up an Android OEM and convincing them to switch, but Google is out to make life a little more difficult than that. Google's real power in mobile comes from control of the Google apps—mainly Gmail, Maps, Google Now, Hangouts, YouTube, and the Play Store. These are Android's killer apps, and the big (and small) manufacturers want these apps on their phones. Since these apps are not open source, they need to be licensed from Google. It is at this point that you start picturing a scene out of The Godfather, because these apps aren't going to come without some requirements attached. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on... and services as well.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    What does "manufacturer" mean in this context? I don't think Qualcom or Foxconn can give a rat's ass about whether you pack Gmail or not.
  - smallerfish 3y ago

crossroadsguy 3y ago

> the alternative is it's own flavor of Android a-la Huawei Or one that couple of major OEMs drive. But they won't do that. That's just not gonna happen. One, software is anything but Samsung's forte, they suck at it. They are much worse at Software than even Apple is. Second, Samsung is not a very smart company, it's an extremely "hard working" company without the smarts (yes, I know). But they are smart enough to know their weakness. They also can't trust too many companies, or other OEMs. In the Google-Samsung relationship they know that Google needs a company like Samsung with its strengths to churn out millions of devices to millions of people where they can put their OS and track every breath these users take. So it works for both of them. A fee for a default search engine or so I think comes secondary. Samsung also knows that the service suit Google offers - Gmail, Google Maps, YouTube, Docs etc it is like "the mail", "the map"…. etc in most of the world and moving away from Google blessed Android is not going to sit well with "their target audience" (I had to put quotes for emphasis lest some noble HNer jumps saying they have been hosting their own email since before they could tie their shoe laces). Samsung "own mobile OS" shenanigans? Nope, no one at Google or at Samsung believed even for a moment it was going anywhere.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
namdnay 3y ago
> They are much worse at Software than even Apple ?? > But they are smart enough to know their weakness If they were they wouldn't have insisted on building their UI layer on top of stock android
- ladyanita22 3y ago
  They need to differentiate, but given Samsung's clearly lackluster track record at OSes, it's obvious they're very bad at software and they know it. Plus their Android flavor (One UI) is extremely underperforming, even when compared to the Chinese OEMs. If we compared it against the cleanliness of Pixel software, you'd inmediately see Google is simply much, much better than Samsung at software even with the same foundations.

jeroenhd 3y ago

Based on this excerpt: > was apparently the only way that phone manufacturers like Samsung could implement Branch without violating their revenue share agreements (RSAs) with Google, which he understood to require that Google be the only “web-connected” search function pre-loaded onto a device. I would assume that Google pays back some of the ad revenue it collects through search to Samsung. I don't think Google will demand special permission to make them the default search provider, but they certainly won't pay you for it unless you sign a contract.

philistine 3y ago

Your question rests on marketing pablum that you swallowed whole; that Android is open-source and that anyone can freely use it. The reality is that if you want the crown jewels of Android, its app store, you need to sign a very monopolistic agreement with Google.